News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by endisneigh on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:51AM (#27560910)
How would not trusting the government not make the country less democratic? Isn’t democracy by definition a process in which trust is created via electors?
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by kazinator on Saturday June 19, 2021 @10:59AM (#27560982)
Hmm.

OK, first of all, whether A trusts B has no bearing on whether B is trustworthy, which should only be based on facts and not what A thinks. A could be driven by fear and mislead by misinformation.

Secondly, on the opposite end, is it democractic if there exists a widespread, blind trust in the government?

The word for a healthy mistrust is skepticism.

Maybe the citizens in a constitutional, parliamentary democracy should always be skeptical of what their elected and non-elected public servants are doing.

If there is a widespread mistrust which is rationally based in too many government activities and decisions being behind closed doors, that does seem to point to a dent in democracy.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by chii on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:00PM (#27566740)
> democractic if there exists a widespread, blind trust in the government?

yes it is. Whether the trust is blind or based on reason, as long as the choice had been with the people's vote, it is democratic.

For some reason, some people assume that democracy will somehow produce the best outcome for them. Democracy doesn't automagically produce good outcomes. Democracy requires that each voter to be rational and informed, and requires the voting system to not exhibit bias (which the USA certainly does - first-past-the-post sucks). And even then, those two requirements only produce an outcome which is representative of the will of the people, rather than a good outcome for all (such as good equality, wealth distribution, etc).

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by kazinator on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:20PM (#27571515)
The strictest logical interpretation of your statement is that since democracy requires various conditions X, Y, Z, as you say, then if any of those conditions are not met, then the phenomenon of democracy must not be present.

In that sense, you are agreeing with me because what I wrote is also that democracy requires a rational constituency (that therefore doesn't exhibit blind faith in government).

Though you thought you would be writing statements which disagree with mine, as you can see it is difficult to get away from the idea that democracy must be defined by the good outcome, and not the political motions and trappings that are supposed to cargo-cult it into existence. Dictatorships have pseudo-democratic "votes" also.

Consider that the bulk of the power structure of a modern "free world" government is not elected. The elected cabinet is like a squad of midget toreadors armed with whips, where the government is a 50,000 pound bull.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by anoncake on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:32AM (#27561359)
No, democracy is the form of government in which the people (directly or indirectly) rules itself. I.e. ideally, everyone has the same amount of influence on the country's governance.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by fallingknife on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:54AM (#27561569)
Democracy just means that you get to choose. It doesn't mean you get to be happy with your choice.