In my experience, even after starting, some things just remain difficult. No matter how long I manage to keep momentum, that inner voice keeps saying: "This is hard. This is boring. This is time consuming. This is boring. This is uninteresting. I want to do something else." It's like rolling a stone up a hill; there is just no momentum to gain.
Sometimes a perspective change can help, but that can be easier said than done.
Sometimes starting on tasks that require my brain to work with me can be enough momentum to push start it into whatever it is that I need to complete. But a lot of the time it is exactly as you describe; no matter how long I work at it it's extremely hard to get through or even impossible. If my brain doesn't want to retain information or process information to create something, it won't.
There are strategies and things that can help with this, but a lot of them require external resources and understanding. Having well defined tasks with good external accountability can be really helpful. Having strong incentives for completing tasks can help too. The problem is that finding people that can accommodate your needs here is pretty damn hard.
So the strategies for making something that is difficult to complete needs to feed into your motivations.
If you find yourself procrastinating and being unable to complete a task until the deadline is very close, but somehow find the motivation to complete that task inside that short window of time, then accountability is a factor.
If you have a manager at work, for example, and they are willing to help accommodate you, frequent check ins for accountability could help. They should be nonjudgemental, but frequent enough to make the task feel urgent. They could also break a larger project into small tasks (like a kanban) and have micro-deadlines for specific tasks rather than a deadline for the entire project. For a student this might be asking the professor to have check-ins or breaking a larger project into smaller homework assignments due daily.
If you're by yourself or people supervising you are unwilling to accommodate you, then the biggest favor you can do for yourself is try to break down a task before you start doing it. A project like "clean your room" is very vague and perhaps daunting. But if you break that down into individual tasks, such as "remove all clothes off the floor," "put all cola cans in the recycle bin," "take cups to kitchen", etc. it can be more manageable. Doing this also creates a potential reward system which you may or may not respond to: checking off a to-do list. Some people find this very satisfying and watching things get crossed out or checked off or deleted might just provide the dopamine that your brain needs.
Rewards are also a very important aspect to finding ways to complete tasks you don't want to. A reward might be as simple as someone saying "I'm relying on you to get this thing done for me" or it could straight up be a tangible reward like money or food or whatever else gives you joy. If you can figure out ways to trick your brain into rewarding yourself, then all the better. Personally creating a reward like "you can play video games after finishing writing this bit of code" doesn't really work for me since I can very easily just go do that thing. Perhaps something like adding something to a shopping cart and saying you can submit the order when you've completed your task might work if you can afford it. Still, external reward functions work better in my experience, though even knowing someone else is relying on me to complete a task is a big motivator for my brain to get it done. Rewards also need to be frequent. Having a reward set up for the end of a project is not going to be useful for motivation throughout it. You need to have regular rewards built in for them to be really effective, I think.
Another strategy is to set a timer. This timer can be for whatever you want, but the thought process isn't just to do something for that long, but rather a challenge against the clock to see how much you can get done. If you're in the kitchen and you're microwaving some food for a few minutes, you could maybe use that as a timer to see how many dishes you can put away or wash. You can play a song and see how much of a function you can write in your code before the song ends.
Those are some of the ones off the top of my head, though there are probably more resources you can find online for dealing with ADHD or executive dysfunction that would help a lot.
Examples are:
- building a side project that might never get a customer
- putting hours into a design that a client might hate for some unknown personal reason that didn't come up earlier
- responding to a tenderSome things need to get done, at least short term, sure. But if that's structural, some major chances should be done.
If a side project is neither a source of learning, nor fun, nor of opportunity (and thus "it doesn't pay off", in your words) - then just don't do it and find something else.
I'm a fierce believer in intrinsic motivation. Extrinsic motivations don't hold up. You're set to give up sooner or later.
(This is to say nothing of the inherent problems with extrinsically motivated work, such as freelance work.)
Take something like Basecamp as an example. I came up as a web developer at the same time as those guys. Could've built something like that, but didn't do it then and certainly not with the same conviction. If I had, and had early adoption, I would've stuck at it and carried through - the fun aspect wouldn't have been an issue if there was early success.
I am amazing at starting. I start so many projects. My way of procrastinating is to start something new rather than work on what I should be working on. I absolutely suck at sticking with something until it's done. I am not a "completer finisher". Suggesting someone like me should "Just start shit." is literally the worst advice. :)
I don't think they were talking about your hobbies.
„Just“ as in: I‘m still trying to figure this stuff out as a lifelong procrastinator but other ingredients than momentum conservation which was also huge for me were self-acceptance, self-forgiveness and especially „Tiny Habits“ (the book)
Establishing triggers in my life that put me back on track in autopilot mode were some of the largest game changers for me.
The biggest one being that I now have a 10 step go-to-bed routine that sets my next-morning-self up for a great mood and start into the day.
Plus, it‘s a gentle, daily reminder of caring and being gentle to myself.
I tried it once (trying the medication is part of the diagnosis), I found myself switching tasks with Intent and being really focused on one thing at a time, vs my usual mode of "multitasking".
I can really resonate with that.
In fact, the vast majority of self-help advice I've seen in my life so far was entirely based on anecdotal evidence, survivor bias, obviously inadequate generalizations ("if I can do it this way, you can do it this way, too"), and an incredible amount of aggressive immunization to critique ("if you're sceptical about anything I say, you already have the wrong mindset and will never achieve anything"). It's very off-putting to someone with a background in science.
But the third one is actually hard, because it is a double edged sword. My current strategy is to contain momentum so it doesn’t expand into obsession and deliberately give myself time to sleep over things.
Sleep is precious, it recovers but it also works your brain. You get perspective and connect dots.
I guess I‘m cautious because I was so bad at the first two, that I clinged on the third, which is exhausting and unhealthy.
I also try to find things I can work on a little bit every day for a longer period of time. If I want to learn a foreign language or the fancy programming framework of the month, I do much better if it's used every day for 15 minutes than all at once and then forgotten.
If you're undiagnosed, how do you know?
Happens more often with the Inattentive subtype of ADHD than with Hyperactive, because the former is much harder to spot, especially in adults, plus everyone around you is eager to offer you value judgements as diagnoses (suggesting you're lazy, undisciplined, don't have an actual problem), and/or prescribe you the common "go away" nonsolutions like better diet and exercise (I call them "go away" because it's just sending someone on a wild goose chase in order to have them stop bothering you).
ADHD is severely underdiagnosed in adults, and getting from undiagnosed to diagnosed stage is often just a matter of going to a psychiatrist - after first overcoming stigma, stereotype, and ADHD-induced problems. Easy peasy. Not.
All the forms of care that require a legitimate diagnosis?
> How much wasted time would be needed to get it diagnosed?
An hour (not "wasted", used for legitimate diagnosis and assessment)
> And how much wasted time would be needed until a doctor hits on the right prescription for you?
Is your alternative just not getting meds? How is that better than trying?
The quality-of-life improvement is substantial.
Thanks, bud.
I still feel like just expressing my viewpoint could help someone else change, I just don't expect it most of the time.
We are stubborn brains.
But deciding to armchair-quarterback what somebody knows about their own mental health is frankly not a debate just an attack and a pretty silly one at that.
Continuing to spread the idea that any unqualified person can just decide they have a mental health disorder without seeking help from _legitimate professionals_ in that space is negligent. I'm attacking the negligent spread of harmful information about mental health, as _obviously_ people that are struggling with mental health conditions _should seek qualified help_.
I'm glad the book you read helped you find some amount of clarity or made you feel better. That's great!
Possibly, for yours, you need a doctor to rattle off 10 questions and write down your answers.
But me, for mine, I am content to read the 10 questions written by the doctors for me to interpret myself.
The fact that you don't realize you are being offensive is just so... chef's kiss.
Please continue your crusade against negligence elsewhere. You've added absolutely nothing here.
The arrogance of this statement is astounding.
> The fact that you don't realize you are being offensive is just so... chef's kiss.
I'm certain that you're offended by my statements, but only because of your aforementioned arrogance. Telling unqualified individuals to seek help from qualified individuals about matters regarding mental health isn't offensive. I'm sorry that I don't have the faith in random unqualified individuals that you do.
> Please continue your crusade against negligence elsewhere. You've added absolutely nothing here.
I ended our conversation previously and you chose to revive this discussion. You're welcome to see yourself out whenever you're ready.
Why needlessly call-out, contradict and argue? This, my comment here, was a share out, it took some courage to post it, none of it was about or impacted you. You took it upon yourself to be the critic. So to that I say, buzz off. You’re unwanted.
> created: 82 days ago
Yup. This checks out.
No thanks. Enjoy your older account. I can't possibly care any less about your actual identity and any perceived significance you think sharing a username across websites gives you. It's also not my opinion that totally unqualified individuals cannot take the place of legitimate doctors.
Best of luck. I won't be continuing this thread. I really am glad that book helped you and really do hope that you someday seek legitimate treatment.
- name it. Some writers call it "resistance." You can call it Philip, Satan or whatever. It helps with recognition.
- don't be afraid to be quirky. Have 3 desks. Do jumping jacks every 9 minutes. Whatever works. The overt act of battling in itself can help a lot.
The key trick is to start really small to remove the hurdle of getting going and establishing the habit, and returning to small in moments of low motivation or other impediment (eg 1 pushup will keep the momentum. 0 pushups won't)
Any idea, what would the equivalent be for this single pushup applied to coding/programming?
The repetitive tasks I choose a small number of steps, something I can accomplish in 5, maybe 10 minutes, and plan to stop and do something else for a bit. Read an article, stare out a window at nature, play a couple of minutes of a game. Then I do another set of changes until I start to lose focus and do a brain break. Rinse and repeat.
If I feel like I don't know where to start, I need to learn something, I listen to what the anxiety is screaming and pick out one question that will fill in the next level of knowledge, no matter how silly it sounds. ("Ok, you know <html>, and <head> and <body>... what's the next level in <body>?") Every time my knowledge hoovering starts to falter, I stop and pull out just one next question...
And equivalents for other circumstances, of course. Those are just my most common roadblocks.
Agreed, I think that acceptance is a great start. The next stage I think is accommodation. Organize your life in a way that compensates for the struggle.
Me too! It does coincide with periods of medication, but this decade has been substantially better than the last.
I hadn't thought about that timing until now.
did you ever get any mentorship? i’ve started to feel that i would really benefit from a mentor, probably someone with experience of executive function disorders etc.
That said, I'm a born procrastinator with undiagnosed ADHD and I've managed to accomplish a few things, mostly after I turned 30. Here is all I would say helped me:
First, accepting who I am, that everybody has some mental struggles and this is mine.
Second, internalizing that mood follows motion. I can't sit around waiting to feel right before starting/doing something. You will never feel right. It's the doing of the thing that makes you feel right. Just start shit. That's the battle.
Finally, conserve momentum at all costs. When I'm really getting things done, keeping grinding, extend the streaks, fewer cold starts makes my life easier.