Came to make a comment like this. Some jobs are great to do entirely remotely and forcing workers in those roles to come into an office is completely outdated bullshit.

But there are tons of jobs that require trust and collaboration. For those workers, in-person relationship building is a fundamental part of the job.

We need to be clearer in our job titles and descriptions about that, so that there is less conflict in expectations of remote work.

Yes it's harder for most people to form bonds online.

I have worked with people whom only have friends, and social time, through an office setting. I've worked with people who can't wait to get away from their family by going to work. My dad couldn't wait until monday.

I was that guy that socialized, and made friends through work. I'm still that guy kinda? The hour grooming, and the two hour commute is making me think I should reach out to people whom I come in contact locally.

That said, some people don't need the social experience going to an office provides.

They have full lives, and don't need to show up to the charade. If they are good employees, why force them back?

Smart employers will let them work from home.

Agreed. I didn't mind for the first part of the pandemic, as I knew everyone on my team and we just kept shooting the shit on chat or video. But then I switched jobs, and last week was actually the first time I met most of them. I've found it much harder to build the same rapport.

I’ve worked at the same company for nearly 20 years. I’ve had precisely 0 lunch and hallway conversations in all of those years. Lunch time is when I go work out. If I’m not working out, I’m sitting at my my desk working. Socializing is for non-work hours. However, I’ve learned a lot more about coworkers (some of whom I’ve worked with for more than 10 years) during the pandemic from talking at the beginning of zoom calls waiting for everyone to show up.

You are not the modal employee.

I’m not at zero but generally avoid socializing at work. It just stresses me out for some reason. I’m pretty affable and approachable and genuinely like people, just from a distance.

So ... since you only worked or worked out ... when did you actually eat?

You sound like a fun person to work with!

Does it bother you if someone doesn't socialize at work? I don't understand why it would.

If someone can make it 20 years with zero hallway conversations I assume they aren’t very pleasant to be around.

I mean, if I asked OP if they had a nice weekend, what would happen? Would I be ignored? Just a grunt in reply? Or a “fine” and that’s it?

I assumed they were referring to the spontaneous work-related hallway chats that middle managers and executives claim are so important. I'm not OP, but I relate, and while I'm not big on small talk I'll engage in it because I respect my colleagues and I don't want to snub them.

If you ask someone if they had a nice weekend and they give a one-word response, why not just not ask them questions like that? It seems rude to expect someone to put a certain amount of effort into conversation with you that you initiated.

Why not just do like a 3-4 day retreat to "bond" every 3-4 months?

Or even monthly have maybe a 2-3 day mini-retreat work a day or two on-site and do some after-work bonding for those who are staying in hotels, etc... I mean if it's just about bonding. I had pretty good bonding with an agency I worked with and we'd do once a year retreats and it was really nice to hang out with the team, then go back home and hang out in slack.

because people have families, and parents can't just bounce on their children?

The parents I know have their lives greatly complicated by commutes and having to ensure childcare while they're in transit to or from the office.

As a parent, a five-day-per-week commute has many more opportunities for something to go wrong than an off-site I know about a month in advance that lasts for three nights.

Every single day, lots of things have to go right: dropping off has to be at a defined time (whether school or daycare, most activities have a predetermined start time unless the kid is very young, which mine isn't any more), then I have to get to work from the daycare, then I have to hope that nothing blows up during the day requiring me to stay longer, then I have to hope nothing blows up on the trip to daycare, and so on. I'm very fortunate that daycare is on a transit path for me because my family doesn't drive and transit around here is usually more reliable than driving.

Working from home for the last 15 months has been a godsend. I don't have to deal with any of those oddities. My spouse and I have traded off who takes a few days off every few weeks or so to be "on vacation" with the kid, or we sync up and take days off together to just veg at home as a family.

If you tell me I can skip the bullshit commute and only have to plan child care around a retreat that is booked a month, or even a couple of weeks!, in advance, I will gladly take that trade. Even if it's a "bring your spouse" kind of thing, I can get a set of grandparents to train or fly in for that time (or even go to them).

Yes. And I's argue that some semi-structured time to exchange ideas, come up with ideas, "bond," etc. with everyone on some scale of team and even guests from other teams is probably better than bump into you conversations that often aren't going to happen with people on other floors, in other offices, and even on different continents.

I'm guessing the company size (~15) has a lot to do with it, but the 100% remote startup I am at has had a lot of success with onsites 2-3x / year.

I think that occasional in-person contact is important to avoid the "erosion of trust" that I've seen occur over and over again working full-time remote at multiple companies for most of a decade before COVID. Even famously all-remote teams have relied on periodic conferences and summits to maintain that contact. It works. It's why I never balked at travel requirements - as often as monthly - during those remote jobs.

The key is to recognize that the in-person contact is part of the mix to enhance empathy/connectedness and for those few situations where a multi-way high-bandwidth conversation is necessary. Planning sessions are an example IMO. Understanding how people really feel about priorities etc. is important, but often involves interpreting facial expressions and body language that aren't captured (or conveyed well) on video. Making it a part of your every day team work environment puts you into an entirely different and no longer remote-friendly milieu.