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Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by markus_zhang on Sunday June 13, 2021 @08:01AM (#27491807)
I actually enjoy today's Internet much more. I'll lay out the reasons:

1) Easy access to many high quality contents. For example HN is a good platform for accessing new knowledge. Note that I say "access", not "learn". Reading HN sometimes give people the false impression that they are learning new knowledge, which usually is not the case. I treat HN as a platform to get a peek at certain new knowledge, but reading books, watching videos and most importantly implementing it by myself, IMO, is the only true way to learn.

2) Fast enough to view high quality videos without any delay. Again this is related to learning new things. It is also important for me because it's one of the few ways that I entertain myself.

3) This might be arguable, but getting knowing a lot of different people from different places is a lot fun. People who comes from different culture usually have different standard of "good", "bad" and other moral judgment and it's fun to read all of those. This was doable 20 years ago but far fewer people were online at the time.

4) It's a lot cheaper. 20 years ago only a company can afford something faster than 1M (back then I had a 56K Modem I think but can't be sure) in my country and it was very expensive even for the modems. Nowadays pretty much everyone has access to some high speed internet. Even if they cannot afford a computer (which is actually a rare case), they have Internet access through mobile phones.

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by mrtksn on Sunday June 13, 2021 @08:15AM (#27491895)
> Easy access to many high quality contents.

On the contrary, I would argue that the content quality is drastically lower because of optimisation for revenue and much less purer motivations.

The video quality is really much much better though. Original video scene is great as the business side of the things is a solved problem. Yet again, it suffers from optimisation for advertisers as less and less things are kosher.

Oh and the movie scene is terrible IMHO as a whole, despite having some amazing movies. Netflix is also optimising and the most optimum content for the business of Netflix is often not that optimum for many people. Not many tall poppies came out of it.

It's funny how a pop singer made a song about our optimised happy lives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um7pMggPnug

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by Zak on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:07AM (#27492252)
> On the contrary, I would argue that the content quality is drastically lower because of optimisation for revenue and much less purer motivations.

I think the signal to noise ratio has decreased, but that doesn't mean there's less signal; there's just a lot more noise.

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by karaterobot on Sunday June 13, 2021 @06:00PM (#27496940)
That's only relevant if the noise gets filtered out. I think there's a lot of evidence that our most prevalent platforms filter content for how much attention it can hold: which is to say, for revenue or less pure motivations. This is probably considered "quality" content, by some incredibly cynical metric of quality, and maybe the adoption of that cynical approach is the underlying change that has occurred on the internet in the last twenty years.
Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by Growling_owl on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:17AM (#27492322)
the Internet is now being used by 4 billions people, so it basically mimics humanity

Back in the 80s and 90s you were cherry picking the elite and the intellectuals, the internet of back then was never going to be representative sample of humanity

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by markus_zhang on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:10AM (#27503507)
I still believe it's relatively easy to find high quality material, even for amateurs. For example, I can watch live train yard cams nowadays on Youtube (Virtual Railfan on Youtube), and watch people who know what they are doing do live coding. I'm definitely losing myself in a multitude of options but I won't balme it on the accessibility of modern Internet.

20 years ago there were definitely less garbage on the Internet, and less gems as well.

But I definitely agree with the movie part. We still get a few good ones here and there but it's kind of rare nowadays :(

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by ipython on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:15AM (#27492314)
I don’t know about the content argument. Yes it’s true that there is a lot of low quality content out there. And that low quality content drowns out the good stuff. But there are some absolute gems out there - things that didn’t exist 20+ years ago. Khan academy for example is a treasure of amazing free content.
Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by mda on Sunday June 13, 2021 @02:31PM (#27495015)
Completely disagree, there is probably 100x more content now compared to 10-15 years ago, sure garbage also increased but excellent content is there and internet of today is better overall.
Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by mrtksn on Sunday June 13, 2021 @03:39PM (#27495612)
I think, the old internet did not have much original content and we consumed what was available pre-internet but without the scarcity. The original ones were created by privileged people in relatively tiny community.

The current internet content is made for the internet. A lot of great things were made of course but I think the optimisation is diluting it into mediocracy. Every single day it gets more and more optimised for revenue or influence through time dominance. If you pay for it, it is designed to keep you pay for it(not necessarily pay for it and consume it but keep paying. Games are mostly freemium where you pay if you want to enjoy, movie subscription services will pile sh*t in font of you to give you the impression of endless content, optimize scenarios for retention etc.). If it is free, it is designed to pay by proxy(purchase something or give political power to an interest group).

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by shadowgovt on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:39AM (#27492478)
The past internet I remember was one of absolute noise search results and big invisible blobs of SEO text. To find something, you had to know already where to look.

Go back past the search engines, and most knowledge simply wasn't on the internet yet.

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by randomguy3344 on Sunday June 13, 2021 @08:41AM (#27492062)
I disagree with point 3)

People used to have big desire to meet each other and exchange information. Internet evolution has throttled that desire greatly, we don't have one to one or group conversations any more, not nearly as much as we used to, social media & mainstream access are the culprits.

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by ratww on Sunday June 13, 2021 @08:04AM (#27491831)
That's fair, but the technological improvements in the network layer that made it faster, more accessible and cheaper are not directly related with the complaints by the author.

We can have one thing without losing the other.

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by markus_zhang on Sunday June 13, 2021 @08:10AM (#27491864)
I agree with you. Too much bloat somehow.
Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by TheRealDunkirk on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:00AM (#27492203)
Counterpoint. It is disappointing to me that most of the "web sites" people interact with now transfer more data on a single page load than an entire operating system and applications from 25 years ago, when you could get "on the internet" with a PC running Windows 3.11 and Trumpet winsock, or Slackware. And, yeah, a lot of that is because of much higher quality media, but a lot of it is advertising and tracking, too. If we did NOT have high bandwidth now, the internet would simply be unusable. And for what? I'm not any better informed these days. Slashdot was the HN of the day, and it's about the same vibe. Videos and podcasts are jokes, taking 100x longer to make the point than simple text. Social media brought everyone to the publishing "party," and that's worked out just as well as you'd think. In fact, I can't think of any way that the internet is fundamentally improved over the past 25 years. In additional fact, I think a lot of what's developed in that time is harming society.
Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by ipaddr on Sunday June 13, 2021 @10:00AM (#27492674)
A lot more people and more voices adds abut

But the quality of even photos have been downgraded since phones.

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by ItsMonkk on Sunday June 13, 2021 @01:09PM (#27494237)
The early internet did #3 much better than today. I'm still a member of a ~50 member forum that's been going for 20 years, and the ability to discuss nuanced topics is much better than it is here, even if the average quality of the persons themselves are much better here.

A key reason this is because of "weirdness budgets". If I independently arrive at a solution and try to communicate that to you, the more work it takes to verify(so I can easily tell you some prime factors, but not say uhh.. UFOs exist) the result and the more different it is from your prior, the less likely it is to succeed.

This is magnified by the n ( n - 1) / 2 cost of communications, where n is the number of people. We all have different norms, and it's nearly impossible to work out where another persons norm is within a single comment, so mostly people surpass your weirdness budget and you ignore them.

This means that we can only meaningfully talk about things that the general public are on the same phase of. This is just another way to state the Overton window. But now that we understand what creates the Overton window, we can attempt to evaluate what we can do to mitigate it.

Now when we evaluate Facebook, reddit, YouTube comments, HN, message boards, BBS, and 1720 Venice coffee shops we can see them for what they are. The more you bump into the same people, the more nuance you can find. Nuance is where the insights really come from. No one can work it out themselves.

Another depressing reality is that when you do find a tight-nit community that is able to create these insights, all you have done is segmented yourself from the general public's Overton window. Now your just another weird LISPer, and the Java programmers that have libraries and drivers behind their projects will run circles around you even though you are correct. Correctness isn't enough.

Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by robjan on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:56AM (#27492640)
Regarding speaking with lots of cultures, I feel the current platforms have bring out the worst in people. Society has been completely divided in many places and well developed democracies undermined by the current incentives to promote and widely disseminate information which provokes strong reactions. This has been largely made possible by centralisation and consolidation of the internet.
Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by einpoklum on Sunday June 13, 2021 @08:47AM (#27492122)
I do believe you're conflating high-bandwidth content with high-quality content.
Re:I Miss the Old Internet (2019) by Lapsa on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:11AM (#27492286)
HN used to be better imho