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Re:Software is eating the car by JumpCrisscross on Thursday June 10, 2021 @03:58PM (#27465013)
>If I'm the dark pattern developer I'm not logging when the EULA is accepted or how many times they declined it

This cuts both ways. If the user can show one case of their rejecting the EULA without it being logged, they can then make the claim--correctly or not--that they repeatedly rejected it. If the car refuses to work without the EULA being accepted or rejected, proof of its movement would be sufficient to show repeated rejection.

More pointedly, willfully hiding information like this could backfire massively with the courts or law enforcement.

Re:Software is eating the car by duped on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:40PM (#27465504)
There is hiding information and not collecting it to begin with.

    void handleEula()
    {
      auto eulaAccepted = readEulaAcceptedFile();
      if (!eulaAccepted)
        eulaAccepted = promptForEulaAcceptance();
      writeEulaFile(eulaAccepted);
    }
This function reads a file from disk and writes back to it every time. If filesystem write audits aren't enabled there is no way to determine if the most recent write of "true" was the only write.

> If the car refuses to work without the EULA being accepted or rejected, proof of its movement would be sufficient to show repeated rejection.

If the car refuses to work without the EULA being accepted then it wouldn't move. If some functionality was enabled or disabled by accepting the EULA then you would have to show that the functionality was never enabled based on secondhand sources... which would be difficult. Proving something didn't happen is infinitely more difficult than proving something did. Many systems are not designed to handle that level of introspection.

All I'm saying is that the cute legal theory of "I rejected this N times therefore that one time I accepted it is invalid" falls apart for me when I consider that the user would have to prove they never did something, except that one time. Good luck.

Re:Software is eating the car by lelanthran on Friday June 11, 2021 @03:16AM (#27470247)
> This function reads a file from disk and writes back to it every time. If filesystem write audits aren't enabled there is no way to determine if the most recent write of "true" was the only write.

Yet, that doesn't matter - all the user has to demonstrate in court is that rejecting a EULA causes it to come up again in the future, meaning that sooner or later it is going to get accidentally accepted.

Re:Software is eating the car by ClumsyPilot on Thursday June 10, 2021 @09:12PM (#27468173)
Judges are not idiots, and there is an "obligation to observe reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing".

Practices like this increase likelihood that the judge rules the entire agreement null and void for the entire userbase.

Re:Software is eating the car by IncRnd on Thursday June 10, 2021 @10:11PM (#27468578)
> ... falls apart for me when I consider that the user would have to prove they never did something, except that one time.

It falls apart for you, since you are the person trying to trick every single driver. It won't necessarily fall apart for a judge.