News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by jbgreer on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @03:57PM (#27439983)
Interesting approach, especially given that they don't seem to be concerned about having internet service providers declared public utilities.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by bilbo0s on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:03PM (#27440045)
especially given that they don't seem to be concerned about having internet service providers declared public utilities.

Which is why it will obviously fail at actually doing anything useful.

However, the intended purpose may not be so much to do anything useful, as it is to score some points for incumbent politicians. In that, it could succeed brilliantly. It's actually a very smart move if you consider the political benefits accrued to politicians.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tolbish on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:16PM (#27440187)
What a smart, optimal use of taxpayer dollars. Ohio residents should be proud.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by jeffbee on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:21PM (#27440244)
Name even one way in which Google resembles a public utility.

When I build a house, do I have to pay $25k to get my Google pipes hooked up? Seriously where are the parallels?

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ketzo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:31PM (#27440367)
It's a service with which essentially every person living in present-day America needs to interact on a day-to-day basis. And yes, they need to. I think it is hugely disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

We can talk all day about how DuckDuckGo and ProtonMail exist. But for a huge, huge majority of people, Google simply is the internet.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by bilbo0s on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:53PM (#27441433)
The material point is that an ISP is what you need to get to Google. You don't need Google to get to the ISP.

You need electricity to get television, you don't need television to get electricity. You need electricity to get the internet, you don't need the internet to get electricity. Now whether or not television or internet are more useful than electricity is an entirely separate question. But which of the three is the baseline utility is a bit obvious.

But again, the intended purpose is probably not to make Google a utility, it's to score political points. So none of these arguments are really relevant to the calculus that a politician would work through before taking an action like this. This is still a brilliant action from a political perspective because it will undoubtedly win incumbents some votes.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by bananabreakfast on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:41PM (#27440491)
Hard disagree.

Gmail maybe. Providing email as a utility service is a strained argument but could be made as there is a parallel to actual mail service.

Literally everything else Google does has a mainstream alternative that is a click away.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by vineyardmike on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:50PM (#27441382)
> everything else Google does has a mainstream alternative that is a click away.

Except no one clicks away (most people).

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ziftface on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:21PM (#27440250)
I wish they would do that as well, but that certainly doesn't invalidate these concerns
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by gruez on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:13PM (#27440899)
It doesn't invalidate the concerns, but it makes you question their motivations.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by jrochkind1 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @07:25PM (#27442378)
What does it make you suspect their motivations are?
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by voxl on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @07:43PM (#27442507)
The obvious? More control over a perceived liberal-biased company from a republican controlled state.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by jrochkind1 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @07:49PM (#27442561)
That is not at all obvious to me, that's why I asked, it wasn't a trick question, there wasn't an answer that was obvious to me!

OK. I dunno if that makes much sense to me, I don't think it does. (I am not a conservative fwiw). But thanks for clarifying!

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by muyuu on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @09:58AM (#27447879)
I'm not American but I find it worrisome that some of the largest companies in the US (and the world) are so "obviously" partisan and willing to exert their power in a partisan fashion, as people accept this reality uncritically - whether it's in favour of their allegiances or not.

That's what a dangerously broken society looks like. The common folk should never be openly supportive of "robber baron"-style political activism and it's unprecedented AFAIK.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by jrochkind1 on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @10:24AM (#27448213)
Well, what is "obvious" is under dispute too.

It is not "obvious" to me that for instance Google is particularly partisan. Most big companies donate to both USA parties in large quantities, because they know they need to buy the politicians whoever is in power. I haven't looked it up, but I assume Google is similar in it's lobbying.

The largest companies are almost always mostly looking out for their own profits, and use their not inconsiderable power mostly to that end. And that's not unprecedented. I don't know if it should be less worrisome that we accept that uncritically!

(Btw, to say something is unprecedented and call it "robber baron style" is a bit confusing, since the term "robber baron" as applied to industrialists/capitalists is over 100 years old! Whatever the "robber baron style" is, it originated in the 19th century! so not unprecedented)

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by muyuu on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @01:06PM (#27450396)
what is unprecedented is that a faction of the populace openly support the barons because they think they're doing their bidding

it's a very dangerous game

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by wyager on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:14PM (#27440919)
If this violates your a priori expectation of politicians' behavior, your prior was bad.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by bananabreakfast on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:38PM (#27440453)
Sure it does.

It undercuts their entire argument by making it look much more like a political stunt than any kind of serious action.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by suifbwish on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:02PM (#27440752)
Actually that is what is known as a red herring argument. Bringing up something unrelated saying that the original argument is invalidated because the same reasoning wasn’t applied to it is a common informal fallacy. Most legal documents have something related to severability which states that even if one part of the document is found to be unreasonable/illegal/illogical, it does not invalidate the rest of the document.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @10:34PM (#27443611)
That's not what a red herring is.

They're calling out the logical inconsistency of the claims being made, and in turn questioning the genuineness of the speaker's motive.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by Covzire on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:10PM (#27440846)
I'm not aware of any ISP in the US that has terminated a customer's service for perfectly legal political statements.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @10:37PM (#27443628)
Outside of certain protected class situations, Freedom of Association allows anyone to terminate service irregardless of legality of political statements made on their own privately-owned platform.

And no, political stance is not a protected class.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by pumaontheprowl on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @12:26AM (#27444216)
Hence why Google needs to be made a public utility.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @02:37AM (#27444923)
Except search engines are not a necessary service for the public, which is what a public utility is.

Reclassifying a privately owned business to restrict their freedom of association because you think they threaten your political views is autocratic behavior, not democratic.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by zerocrates on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @07:08PM (#27442264)
Certainly it has happened on the hosting side: connectivity, domain names, etc.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ttt0 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:53PM (#27440641)
ISPs don't abuse their power like Google, Facebook, Twitter etc. do.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by verall on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:09PM (#27440836)
They absolutely do? ISPs frequently rate the top of most hated companies lists, and many Americans do not have access to more than 1 ISP offering (>=30mbit) high speed internet.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ttt0 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:15PM (#27440922)
Well then go after them too. And most importantly, go after banks, payment processors and money/infrastructure people in general so they aren't allowed to kick people off just because they don't like someone.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by marnett on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:38PM (#27441225)
Retail Banks are highly regulated though..?
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by awillen on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @07:18PM (#27442328)
Comcast once charged me a $5 self-installation fee. As in I set up the equipment in my house and paid for the privilege.

My other option was to not have internet.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by sumedh on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @09:34PM (#27443247)
Can someone who has the time and money sue Comcast in court for this fee? I believe a judge will say that fee is not reasonable.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @10:39PM (#27443636)
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by mansion7 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:46PM (#27440552)
They may start doing so, if said providers start banning and censoring people based on political beliefs as Google does.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by babypuncher on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:01PM (#27440737)
I don't think I've seen anyone get banned from any major platform for their political beliefs. It has always been for hate speech, inciting real-world violence, or spreading blatantly false misinformation that lead to incitements of violence (such as the unfounded claims that the election was stolen).

Funny how none of the Republicans pushing this censorship narrative batted an eye last summer when Facebook was taking down local BLM groups that called for violence.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ttt0 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:10PM (#27440845)
I got banned from Facebook for swearing basically. Someone took it as 'cyberbullying' or whatever nonsense. I tried to appeal explaining my intentions, but they basically told me that my intentions don't matter.

By the way, spreading misinformation like the infamous lab leak theory? Facebook fact checkers are a joke, they're fact checking stupid memes.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by NationalPark on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @07:18PM (#27442333)
What was it specifically that got you banned?
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ttt0 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @07:56PM (#27442610)
It was just an old meme and it was in my native language so you wouldn't get, but the offensive part of it is simply 'bitch'. Not as a direct insult, but kinda like in "surprise, bitch".

Another thing is that I got suspended for butting in to a conversation about homosexuality where someone was saying that homosexuality is natural, and I said something to the extent of "rape and murder is natural too" to point out the fallacy and they sent me on a 30-day vacation from Facebook for that.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by robotdongs on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @11:56AM (#27449387)
First off, a 30 day vacation from Facebook sounds wonderful, it'd be a great excuse to leave it all together.

Second, not that this was your intent, but that's such a poor example to use in pointing out the fallacy that I can see why someone might see it as "hateful", which is against the TOS, whether or not it should be is a separate discussion.

As a side-note, pointing out a logical fallacy doesn't invalidate someone's argument, ironically this is itself a fallacy.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by babypuncher on Thursday June 10, 2021 @12:50PM (#27462788)
Merely pointing out a logical fallacy is not itself a fallacy. It can be used to discredit a bad argument.

It becomes a fallacy when you say Opinion X is wrong because its proponents used fallacious Argument Y.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ttt0 on Friday June 11, 2021 @10:07AM (#27473512)
> a 30 day vacation from Facebook sounds wonderful, it'd be a great excuse to leave it all together.

I left Facebook few years ago. I can't really back it up with anything, but I have a suspicion that this is the main reason why people are leaving Facebook. Not concerns about privacy.

> that's such a poor example to use in pointing out the fallacy

That's a really common example to show the flaws in appeal to nature argument and pretty much the best you can make, because not many people support rape and murder. That's the point.

> I can see why someone might see it as "hateful", which is against the TOS,

And that's the problem. Just as I said, your intentions don't matter and if someone interprets it as hateful then you're out. It's completely arbitrary.

> pointing out a logical fallacy doesn't invalidate someone's argument, ironically this is itself a fallacy.

Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it does. Depends on what the argument and the context is.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by pumaontheprowl on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @12:23AM (#27444205)
The definition of hate speech can be made to fit whatever political agenda you seek to promote. For example, you will get banned from Twitter for saying "feminism is cancer" on the basis that the statement is hate speech against women. However, saying "white lives don't matter" will not get you banned from Twitter, nor will saying "#HitlerWasRight" in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict (both exact quotes from racist twitter users who are still on the service).
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by mansion7 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @06:57PM (#27442165)
This is the reason that is given, that you have chosen to accept.

The catch is, they label their own violence as speech, and their opponents speech as violence, conveniently.

Hidden camera interviews with numerous employees of the multiple tech monopolies in question reveal that not only do they in target people for censorship based upon their political beliefs and political speech, and in the service of the political parties to which they also overwhelmingly donate, but they do so with glee.

The actions of Facebook, Google, Twitter in their selective banning, deplatforming, and other algorithmic weaselry is often indistinguishable from an in-kind donation directly to the DNC.