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Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by arberx on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:12PM (#27385995)
Toyota is the last automaker (historically) to integrate "new" tech into their vehicles. If you look at their current offering of transmissions, engines, or batteries they use really old tech.

However, this gives them a huge advantage in the reliability field as what is put into their cars is known/proven/shown to be extremely reliable.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by dotancohen on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:22PM (#27386111)
I don't think that this is true. The Prius was a ground-breaker in not only hybrid propulsion, but other tech aspects as well. And lets not forget the often-problematic but very advanced "robotic" transmission, which was really a microcontroller-and-servo-operated manual transmission that felt to the driver like an automatic.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by kipchak on Thursday June 03, 2021 @05:43PM (#27387744)
The Prius/THS/HSD was definitely groundbreaking, but it's also been mostly refined versus refined since it's 1997 release, and is now stuck in everything from luxury sedans to SUVs and the LC500h. For comparison Honda has/is experimenting with i-DCD (pancake motor) i-MMD (paralell system) SH-AWD (Through the road hybrid). Arguably this experimenting has resulted in a simpler system for Honda versus the planetary gearset in the Toyota system.

Not to say that Toyota hasn't also experimented with stranger drivetrains, but they generally seem to have branched out less than Honda as an example.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by dotancohen on Friday June 04, 2021 @07:00AM (#27392376)
Yes, but Honda has always been an innovative company. Comparing Toyota to e.g. Mazda, or the smaller Nissan, or Mitsubishi, or many other Japanese brands puts Toyota generally in the middle of the pack in terms of innovation, but far ahead in quality.

Subaru is a bit of an outlier. Great quality with huge exceptions (NA head gaskets, problematic CVT), and that terrific flat four.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by fomine3 on Friday June 04, 2021 @03:53AM (#27391581)
That's because Toyota invented (and patented) almost perfect system for HEV from the beginning. Now series-hybrid is also getting practical for city use thanks to involved battery tech, but THS is still competitive (or better).
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by post_break on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:13PM (#27386702)
Tundra used the same engine and trans for ages. Same with Tacoma. 4runner I believe still only has a 5 speed auto. They were one of the last big ones to offer android auto and carplay. They are extremely slow to changes.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by ghaff on Thursday June 03, 2021 @05:04PM (#27387289)
The 4Runner is a pretty old design at this point. I don't need its "real" 4WD features but I do like the sight lines and other more traditional SUV design. Not in a big hurry but would be interested to see what a real redesign looks like.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by rodgerd on Thursday June 03, 2021 @05:53PM (#27387870)
I would be surprised if the audience for those vehicles want lots of modern updates, as well.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by Snitch-Thursday on Friday June 04, 2021 @10:02AM (#27393693)
The less touchscreen, computerized fussy equipment in my off-roaders, the better. The fact that Toyota leans into that by waiting until 2020 to provide lane keeping assist on their 4Runners is a benefit. Body on frame, tried and true parts are all worth the trade-offs in ride comfort and MPGs.

If I wanted those things, I would go buy a Highlander or other SUV-shaped car lacking the ability to go from pavement to AWD to 4WD to locked diffs if I get really crazy.

I like to call my off-road truck (rig in the vernacular) 'too dumb to hack'. Not that it has any meaningful security, but it is only electronic, there is not enough digital logic for there to be any attack surface worth exploiting, and even if there were some exploit, it cannot do much more than shut down the engine due to faulty timings.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by ghaff on Thursday June 03, 2021 @06:16PM (#27388145)
Assistive driving and infotainment is still nice given how vehicles are used day-to-day.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by tibbydudeza on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:15PM (#27386033)
While VW/Audi goes absolutely bezonkers and then your car spends extended periods in the workshop because the engine had a major design flaw and killed itself (1.4L TSI Twincharger which was discontinued quickly).
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by ggamecrazy on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:26PM (#27386156)
Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW) seems to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta.

I always chalked up reliability as a function of new tech introduction + focus on reliability. I figured Porsche gets decent numbers because of how relatively low-tech they are and the ridiculous prices they charge for optioning-in that tech (basic things like ACC or memory seats).

Is there something else organizationally, process or product wise that Porsche does differently than the VW group? I do know that they have a separate factory w/ seperate engineering departments (:cough VW engineers design Lamborghini's).

1: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by benjohnson on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:59PM (#27386517)
I kid you not - Porsche copied Toyota and the Toyota Production System for good effect.

https://blog.grabcad.com/blog/2018/10/08/porsche-and-lean-ma...

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by ggamecrazy on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:19PM (#27386758)
Curious if this is just marketing from Porsche. Makes no sense why VW wouldn't adopt the system for similar effects. I'm not sure I buy the reasoning but I'll keep a open mind.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by Glawen on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:36PM (#27386959)
Everyone one copied the Toyota production system
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by benjohnson on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:49PM (#27387094)
It's fair to say GM did copy it well in the Saturn experiment, but failed to bring it fully to the whole company. VW can't help themselves from making complicated things. Honda is onboard, but Nissan still thinks in terms of supply side and will churn out garbage to meet next quarter targets.

That being said, Tesla went back to early Ford for the full top-down flow system - and it's working for them. So while I love the TPS system and use it in my company, I'm willing to keep on learning.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by rodgerd on Thursday June 03, 2021 @05:56PM (#27387903)
> Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW) seems to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta.

Reliability was always a selling point for Porsches relative to their competitor. You could buy a 308 and be constantly fixing it, or a 911 and (so long as you didn't put it in a ditch) you'd have an everyday driver.

The fact that it's dropping suggests that they're feeling the effects of VW's ownership, crapping their designs up.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by radicaldreamer on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:36PM (#27386267)
Porsche has a bifurcated product offering... their sports lineup is extremely reliable, but their SUVs and more mainstream products are certainly not (these also tend to have brand new equipment which doesn't filter to the 911 for years)
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by tibbydudeza on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:59PM (#27386514)
Flat boxer engines in the sportscars are their own design - if it is V6 in the SUV's then it is Audi/VW.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by ethbr0 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @05:32PM (#27387624)
Porsche sports also spend a ton of time racing, at various levels, which I'd imagine back permeates into the corporate culture and increases reliability.

There's a lot of weaknesses that show up a lot quicker when you're holding an engine at redline.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by rasz on Saturday June 05, 2021 @08:00AM (#27404180)
Dont know about that score, is that self reported? There is plenty wrong with Porsches, with their glued cooling line recalls, where glue degrades and lets go with age, and on some models (Macan?) this means cooling fluid spewing directly at your front brake disks and tires. Then you have electronics routinely going haywire. At least you dont have to worry about IMS bearings anymore.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by Glawen on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:29PM (#27386887)
I know engineers who worked for Porsche, they are doing things independently from VW. The only thing they took from VW was the cayenne chassis and it's diesel engine. They were absolutely pissed by the diesel gate as they were unaware of it and quickly removed diesel from their lineup.

They share some functions like brake SW or ACC, but they do their own engine and chassis.

Otherwise they source their stuff alone, and due to the low sales number they struggle to find willing suppliers.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by wampwampwhat on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:44PM (#27386350)
I have no evidence to support this, but I'd theorize that some of it has to do with enthusiast owners (porsche) keeping up with recommended maintenance intervals, while budget owners (vw) and ignorant owners (audi) skip maintenance, causing nightmares down the line.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by TheCapn on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:00PM (#27386532)
That's exactly the sentiment being shared on the reddit thread I just came here from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/nr4awu/which_expensiv...

As a personal anecdote: my 2003 VW (1.8T GTI) had 330,000km when I sold it to a friend (it continues to run strong, but not sure the KMs). I did all the work myself and I did it on time. Biggest repair was AC Compressor, the rest was just routine maintenance and a couple $50 sensors. If a CEL came on I addressed it as soon as possible. At the same time, I had a friend with a similar year Jetta TDI which lit on fire around the 290k mark. Every time I was in her car the CEL was on, and I remember driving it home on a road trip once where you'd hold the pedal to the floor the whole way just to keep it at the highway speed limit.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by ed_balls on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:42PM (#27386328)
What the score? (paywall)
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by ggamecrazy on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:12PM (#27386689)
Sorry! Here it is: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png

Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta.

TBH some of ranking on the list makes anecdotal sense (Toyota is #2). Others do not (Mazda as #1?!).

I'm questioning Consumer Reports methodology, how far back do they look? If it's only a sliding window of <3yrs I do not believe thats enough data.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by anm89 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:58PM (#27386498)
I would consider this a feature. Most new cars would be non starters for me based on being crammed with junk tech that presents long term maintenance issues.
Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by gnicholas on Thursday June 03, 2021 @05:33PM (#27387630)
One really surprising thing: if you want the Camry hybrid with the best mileage, you have to get the low-end model (no rims, most options not available). It has a different type of battery than the higher trim levels, and it gets 6-7 more MPG. I was shocked that this was the case in 2020, and strangely it is still the case in 2021. None of the dealers I spoke with could explain why this happened, or why it persisted across model years.

You'd think that people would be willing to pay more for better mileage (and no, it's not due to weight differences of the premium equipment). I know my relative who was looking at hybrid Camrys would have been happy to pay more to have both the best MPG and various other features. Instead, they got the cheap model and added the blind spot monitors and called it a day.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by BorgHunter on Thursday June 03, 2021 @06:34PM (#27388303)
This is a trick more than one automaker does in the interests of creating a "green" (or "eco") trim, and usually they do it by speccing tires that are all-in on prioritizing fuel efficiency, sometimes with a higher recommended tire pressure too. The tradeoff is that they sacrifice some traction, and either have to go with smaller wheels (big wheels = luxury = $$$, for some reason--Toyota does this with the Camry Hybrid, putting 16" steelies on the cheap LE trim but 18" or 19" alloys on the others) to keep the same ride quality, or just accept a stiffer ride.

It's worth noting, though, that as fuel efficiency goes up each increment in mpg is less valuable, so 6-7 mpg on a car that already gets 50 mpg is not as useful as 6-7 mpg on a car that gets 20 mpg. This is because the thing you're trying to minimize (fuel burned) is in the denominator of the measure. Countries that measure fuel economy in L/100km don't have this problem. Engineering Explained does a good job of showing how the math works out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQmwOX6Xds

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by gnicholas on Thursday June 03, 2021 @06:45PM (#27388416)
They do tire tricks, but here it was actually a different battery chemistry that made the biggest difference.

I completely agree with your assessment of the MPG difference. I tried explaining this to my relative, to no avail. The number for one vehicle was under 50 MPG and the number for the other vehicle was over 50 MPG, so it was a mental sticking point that I could not overcome.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by rodgerd on Thursday June 03, 2021 @05:52PM (#27387861)
> Toyota is the last automaker (historically) to integrate "new" tech into their vehicles.

The Prius was ground-breaking work; had Chevron not killed NiMH batteries, they would have been shipping mainstream electric RAV4s in the 90s. Toyota are very happy to innovate where they think they can deliver to a high standard.

Re:Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK) by skeletal88 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:51PM (#27387117)
The latest RAV4 model didn't have Android Auto/Apple whatever for a year after coming out. Now same with wireless version for that, all other car manufacturers have it on their cars, but not Toyota. It's not like a transmission or engine, it's software..