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Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by rootusrootus on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @09:59AM (#27354586)
> Constant talk and interruption are not conducive to the work of a software engineer.

During the times you are coding, yes. But a software engineer is more than a coder, so there are times when collaboration is very useful.

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by slumdev on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:01AM (#27354621)
There are times when collaboration is useful.

But nothing distinguishes a junior and a senior more than the ability to work independently.

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by majewsky on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:21AM (#27354917)
If anything, I'm collaborating more as a senior than I did as a junior. Junior dev work often means getting a work assignment and working on that by yourself. Senior dev work often means getting together with different stakeholders to work on a design.

(Although obviously those statements aren't absolutes, hence the use of the word "often".)

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by Mauricebranagh on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @11:17AM (#27355718)
And as a senior your quite often working with several external teams and having some meetings FTF produces a massive productivity boost

We are talking Months and Months" by stopping other teams going of at a tangent or flat out just not doing what they are told.

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by grillvogel on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:22PM (#27359034)
at my company the seniors are mainly responsible for driving projects/design and leading teams of juniors who do the implementation. working independently is not really an option
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by slumdev on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:17PM (#27359871)
This is a very old model, and it's as dumb today as it was in the 1990s.

The seniors used to be called "architects," and the "driving projects/design" used to be called RUP.

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by grillvogel on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:33PM (#27360064)
architect is a higher level, they tell us why our designs are bad
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by slumdev on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:50PM (#27360284)
LOL. I feel for you. It's the same way in a lot of places.

Your seniors should definitely be thought leaders, but when they get "too senior" or "too important" to write code, the company is done innovating. That's a major organizational smell.

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by grillvogel on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:55PM (#27360356)
why is that? isnt the main innovation done in design? anyone can code something up that has been designed for them already
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by slumdev on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @04:08PM (#27360573)
If your design is so detailed that any code monkey can implement it without screwing it up, then you've probably spent more time writing design documents than you would have spent just building it.

And if your code isn't expressive enough that the design can be extracted without major effort, then the two will inevitably diverge at some point. Many bugs will appear.

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by recursive on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:18AM (#27354872)
If you're really working totally independently, then you're running a 1-person company. As soon as you get two "seniors" on the same project, if they're working independently, then you're just going to two different, unrelated outputs, by your definition.
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:21AM (#27354918)
Isn't this why microservices are a thing? :).

More seriously though, it's part of skilled project management to organize work in such a way that seniors don't need to constantly collaborate to stay in sync.

Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by slumdev on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @01:59PM (#27358661)
What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months.
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by lanstin on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:38PM (#27360137)
It's skilled software architecture. Some layerings of the problem into decomposable pieces allow for less communications and some layerings of the problem require more communication. The emergent but desirable property of more parallelizable is dependent on details that are small and subtle. Project management cannot possible guarantee this. The outcome of the architecture, how much do people need to communicate, is an input to the project management.
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by sidlls on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @12:45PM (#27357424)
Your “skilled project management” is my “unnecessarily complex process.” There’s a reason collaboration of this sort is used in real engineering disciplines: it’s because it’s more efficient than having some middleman (and/or process) mediating all the communication.
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:56PM (#27359563)
I didn't mean middleman/process mediating communication. By "skilled project management", I meant structuring tasks and setting priorities in such a way as to minimize the required amount of communication - particularly, synchronous communication between the workers. An hour (on average) or two per day replying to messages and doing code review, an occasional meeting every other week - sure. But if your senior devs are spending most of their time each day in meetings, then either you're running a bootcamp, or something is very wrong.
Re:Employees are quitting instead of giving up working from ... by sepin4 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @01:28PM (#27358180)
We are not microservices. People in a team have a lot in common, they do systematically the same type of work albeit in a different context and they can be a lot more useful to each other when they communicate seamlessly instead of at scheduled time slots.