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Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by coldtea on Thursday May 27, 2021 @03:42PM (#27307282)
>Some parts of the world have exploding populations, and while they don't consume much CO2 at the moment, they will

A, the "kicking the ladder" argument. We had a good run in the West over-consuming and producting Co2, and we continue to be at the top (including the Co2 we outsource to our global outsourced factories for our consumption), but others shouldn't.

Before we talk about over-population in e.g. Africa and India, why not talk about cutting down on consumption in the US (#2 co2 global producer with just 5% of the global population - and that's even not including the co2 produced in China for products the US companies ordered/will consume/sell).

Giving a good example how more people can live with less?

Else it's "let us keep our mega-polluting way of life and you better stop having kids so we are not inconvenienced".

(It's also often accompanied with quotes from westerners not having children "for the planet", when they just do it for their career, or to avoid any obstacles like kids on their personal "journey" to consumption and fun).

Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by 908B64B197 on Thursday May 27, 2021 @03:59PM (#27307502)
> A, the "kicking the ladder" argument. We had a good run in the West over-consuming and producing Co2, and we continue to be at the top (including the Co2 we outsource to our global outsourced factories for our consumption), but others shouldn't.

Developing economies don't have to imitate everything the west did. Solar technology and cheap battery storage can be built from scratch instead of retrofitted.

Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by esarbe on Thursday May 27, 2021 @04:33PM (#27308051)
Indeed. And there's a good argument to be made that industrialized countries have an obligation to help building that infrastructure.
Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by teachingassist on Thursday May 27, 2021 @06:05PM (#27309145)
Isn't this the canonical historical justification for colonialism?

That colonialist barons are helping the local population by improving infrastructure for them? (While massively enriching themselves)

I don't think that really worked out well. The exploited wealth (both from resources and labour) arguably contributed to our current position, where unlimited greed at others' expense and total exploitation and destruction of the planet's resources is seen as noble.

Continuing this theme with modern-day Western corporations seeking further profit extraction is a tragedy.

Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by esarbe on Friday May 28, 2021 @03:14AM (#27312578)
I'm more inclined to think of reducing trade barriers for such nations, of enforcing strict ethic rules for multi-national corporations and foreign nation-state actors.

Yes; going there and building this new infrastructure is counterproductive. It creates dependencies and introduces moral hazards. That's not the way to do it.

The emphasis here is on help building the infrastructure, be it with knowledge, resources or context. Not to force progress, but to support it. Not to maintain strongholds on existing technologies using copyright and patents, but instead share knowledge and make it available.

Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by randmeerkat on Thursday May 27, 2021 @08:17PM (#27310287)
So you would rather that industrialized countries did nothing and just watched everyone else suffer?
Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by coldtea on Friday May 28, 2021 @05:14AM (#27313256)
If only industrialized countries did nothing - it would be a miracle for the developing countries!

Instead, industrialized countries push for their own agendas, plunder them for their resources, install their lackeys into power, play "divide and conquer" games with local populations, force them into unfavorable for the country deals, impose penalties and embargos whenever the developing country doesn't cave in to their demands, and so on...

Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by esarbe on Friday May 28, 2021 @07:53AM (#27314268)
I actually tend to agree on this part. Commercial colonialism is a real problem and we should force companies operating in developing countries to comply with strict ethical rules. Or else make operating there unprofitable.
Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by parineum on Thursday May 27, 2021 @08:28PM (#27310369)
Antinatalists like to solve every problem by getting rid of people.
Re:World Now Likely to Hit Watershed 1.5 °C Rise in Next 5 Y... by coldtea on Friday May 28, 2021 @05:15AM (#27313258)
Funnily enough, we could solve a big problem by getting rid of them (anti-natalists, that is).