Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

Re:Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk by cryptonector on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:02PM (#27280117)

I don't believe those making the analogy are sympathetic to or uncritical of the Belarus government, rather they are saying "I told you so" or "the Morales incident set a precedent, surprise!". Now, Belarus might have pulled this stunt even if the Morales incident had never happened, and that's a fine counterpoint, but you really should not ascribe malice to those who point to the similarities in the two incidents because it's clearly not [always] the case. Should I ascribe malice to your ascribing malice? Please be polite.

> Actions of a state against another state's leaders is one thing. Actions against civilian aircraft is another thing entirely.

Wars have been fought over both, attacks on state ships, and attacks on civilian ships. Both are casus belli. Attacks on ships carrying heads of state are particularly problematic absent war, so technically the Morales incident was the worse one, yes (though, of course, if he'd been carrying Snowden then that would in itself have been casus belli), but that does not excuse attacks on civilians.

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Re:Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:10PM (#27280218)

The thing is that there have been many incidents like this, not just the Snowden incident. Israel has done this kind of thing before, dating back to decades ago (and kidnapped people [NAZI war criminals, so frankly probably justified] from other countries territory, too).

I doubt Belarus needed the Morales thing as a cover.

> Wars have been fought over both, attacks on state ships, and attacks on civilian ships.

Yes, this was the casus belli for the war of 1812, supposedly. But the reality in statecraft is that this is rarely the actual reason and there's much more in depth and structural reasons for the start of war.

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Re:Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk by cryptonector on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:36PM (#27283023)

Sure, but I don't think people mentioning the much-more-recent Morales incident are doing it because they're shills for Belarus. I seriously doubt Glenn freaking Greenwald is a shill for Belarus just because he wrote an article about the two incidents -- would anyone argue that he is?

> [...] (and kidnapped people [NAZI war criminals, so frankly probably justified] from other countries [...]

Yes, indeed, Israel's kidnapping of Adolf Eichmann from Argentina was justified. Snowden is not a Nazi war criminal though, so the comparison only goes so far -- Snowden -at least thus far- is a much more pedestrian sort of criminal than a war criminal. It is possible to feel that the kidnapping of a war criminal abroad is justified and also feel that the kidnapping of a mere spy abroad is not.

> I doubt Belarus needed the Morales thing as a cover.

Have they mentioned it? Anyways, it's easy propaganda for them, isn't it. Sure, it can't be avoided to give the other side some propaganda wins from time to time.

> Yes, this was the casus belli for the war of 1812, supposedly. [...]

Not only. It was also the reason that the Marines exist, as they fought a small war in Tripoli over kidnapping of civilians. I'm sure there are many examples. Anyways, my point is just that we can't blanket condemn people who link these two incidents as shills for Lukashenko.

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Re:Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk by smartician on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @08:51PM (#27284786)

Greenwald has been shilling for Russia for years now, so it's not a stretch that this would extend to Belarus as well?

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Re:Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk by colanderman on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:08PM (#27280198)

> they are saying "I told you so"

To whom? No-one on this site was instrumental in deciding to hinder Morales's flight, and I doubt many supported the action at the time. It's obnoxious and comes off like trolling for an argument. Dispassionately making the link is one thing, but most of the comments of this form I've seen are borderline tu quoque nationalist trolling.

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