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Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by mjevans on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:35AM (#27261879)
Electric truck to get rural-centric areas on electric vehicles? Sounds great.

Touchscreens at the helm? Bad plan. I'm very happy with physical buttons that with distinct tactile feedback for hands only use. Distractions in the cab should be eliminated, not increased.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by crooked-v on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:48AM (#27261952)
It seems particularly weird that they put that physical wheel at the bottom for a dedicated vehicle control area, but didn't bother to just, like, put individual buttons there.

I'm happy that Mazda, by comparison, is specifically moving away from touchscreens and strictly to a combination of dedicated physical controls and more limited screens with a dial/puck control.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by rich_sasha on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:23AM (#27262438)
As well as my general dislike of touchscreens, this is especially so in outdoorsy kit where you are prone to have dirty hands. You are then putting the dirt on the bit for seeing information.

Also, for me, outdoorsy kit should be operable in gloves. Vehicles with hearing are a bit of an exception I guess, but still.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:56AM (#27261998)
> "instead of just, like, putting individual buttons there."

A touch screen is cheaper, because they can re-use the same hardware between different vehicles rather than having to design/build/assemble a slightly different set of physical buttons for different models with different features.

It also allows for the interface to improve/evolve over time with software updates, something that Tesla has very much taken advantage of. Tesla Model S's from 2012 still get software updates with new features from time to time.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by voisin on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:32AM (#27262491)
Am I correct in thinking that no other car company is doing meaningful updates regardless of the technology stack they’ve implemented? I have a Ram 1500 with a giant screen and lots of bugs in its software, but have yet (2+ years) to see any updates. I have a family member with a 3 year old Mercedes and it still apparently costs $500 to have the dealer update the GPS mapping (bizarrely competing with the free and far superior Google Maps or Apple Maps via Android Auto or CarPlay…)

I think Tesla implementing major advances like intermittent wipers via OTA update is amazing and related to their culture. I don’t expected to see Ford or others follow suit. The only company that could possibly take this on IMO is VW because they’ve embraced EV beyond any other competitor with ground up new designs.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by crooked-v on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:43AM (#27262534)
That kind of thing is why I'm treating Android Auto/Apple CarPlay as a required feature for any future car I get, and treating the car's own infotainment system as merely a substrate for that functionality.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by swiley on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:28AM (#27262786)
Android sounds great, devices using it absolutely get lots of updates long into the future.

Oh wait.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:43AM (#27262866)
The point with Android Auto (and CarPlay) is that it keeps working with future devices. Your current phone might stop getting updates, but your new one will work with your car too.

The interface is actually running on your phone, but using your car's display as an external display and touch input device.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Bancakes on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:00AM (#27262325)
Cheaper? You mean $5 of plastic and rubber versus a overpriced tablet? Consumers lose functionality and gain nothing. I don't want to play angry birds or whatever Tesla offers, I want to hit the AC button for the AC, or the radio button for the radio. All cars have these basic features.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by MrRiddle on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:14AM (#27262390)
Buttons need to be designed, dash that fits those buttons need to be designed. They already get the touchscreen, adding smaller screen + buttons is more expensive than no buttons + larger screen.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by swiley on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:30AM (#27262798)
I was kind of with you up until here. Radios at least are modular in most cars so you can just swap them out. I wouldn't be too surprised if everything else was designed this way at most car manufacturers but with a proprietary module system. Many seem to pick one or two design languages and at that point the buttons need to be designed one or two times.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Bancakes on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:19AM (#27262736)
Redesigned how, 90% of cars look the same, and it's been industry standard for years.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by belatw on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:02AM (#27262030)
> A touch screen is cheaper, because they can re-use the same hardware between different vehicles rather than having to design/build/assemble a slightly different set of physical buttons for different models with different features.

Any savings will be lost by one class action lawsuit or mass recall. Touch screen is the wrong interface when lives are on the line.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:25AM (#27262140)
There are already millions of Teslas and other vehicles on the road with touch screen interfaces. No lawsuits so far.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Hamuko on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:53AM (#27262290)
https://electrek.co/2020/08/04/tesla-wiper-controls-ruled-il...

Not exactly a lawsuit but on the judicial axis.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by crooked-v on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:30AM (#27262160)
You only have to search "Tesla touch screen lawsuit" to find that there have, in fact, been multiple lawsuits over problems with the touchscreen, as well as a recall of 135,000 vehicles.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:40AM (#27262209)
That recall has nothing to do with the fact that it's a touch interface. The fault was a flash memory chip that would fail after a few years of use.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Bancakes on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:01AM (#27262330)
Why does a premium vehicle with a premium tablet have faulty components not seen even on consumer devices?
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:19AM (#27262421)
Because Tesla screwed up. The component itself (an 8GB e-MMC flash chip) actually wasn't faulty, but it was being misused/overused by constantly writing syslog data to it. Apparently this could amount to hundreds of MB of writes per day, with the device already mostly filled with firmware. After a few years of this it would exceed its write-cycle limit and start to fail.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:48AM (#27261954)
> "Touchscreens at the helm? Bad plan. I'm very happy with physical buttons"

Ford still has plenty of physical buttons. They haven't gone the Tesla route of making almost every function exclusively accessed by the touch screen. It looks to me like you can access most things you'd want to use while driving directly from the buttons on the steering wheel.

> "Distractions in the cab should be eliminated, not increased."

The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice. Hands-free and eyes-free. Unfortunately, most in-car voice interfaces aren't quite their yet, including Tesla's.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Hamuko on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:55AM (#27261990)
>The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice. Hands-free and eyes-free.

Let me guess: your native language is American English and you have no "weird" accent.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:58AM (#27262011)
I have an accent that Americans would consider pretty weird. Siri has absolutely no problems with it. Google Voice isn't bad either. These things are pretty internationalised now days, and will only get better in the future.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Hamuko on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:00AM (#27262018)
Tell that to my Siri, who thinks I am constantly asking for "Obama lights".
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by rich_sasha on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:25AM (#27262446)
I’m sorry for your pain (I feel it too!) but I can’t figure out what Siri misheard as “Obama lights”..?

Fwiw my car always thinks I’m trying to call someone or listen to obscure 60s pop, when all I want is to adjust the AC

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Hamuko on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:27AM (#27262459)
"Obama lights" is the most common mishearing when I ask Siri to turn on the "apartment lights".
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by piva00 on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:23AM (#27262764)
> The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice.

It's only ideal when voice recognition is on the level of having a small conversation with the car, not brandishing commands like I never do in real life. It feels unnatural, and I suffer from the same issue as you and the other commenter in the thread: Siri, Google Voice, Alexa, etc., all have some issue with my accent and I don't even have a thick accent. It's absolutely infuriating to use voice assistants like that, missing 5% of the commands is worse than missing 50% because then I'm always on edge if the next command will be recognised or not.

I've always tried voice assistance, since the first time I could use one around 2005, so far I have absolutely no desire or use for them as the technology keeps just getting in the way instead of helping me out. Not even to set alarms or timers it's good enough, the feedback loop is too long and I prefer to just do 2-3 taps on a screen instead.

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Dah00n on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:38AM (#27262509)
>The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice. Hands-free and eyes-free.

No, voice control - including Siri - is more dangerous than driving at the legal (UK) drink limit and worse than texting in Siri's case. Several studies have found this. Tesla is amount the worst. It's a very common misconception that voice use is safe but it really isn't. It should be banned. We have much safer and well-tested systems in good old buttons..

https://www.caradvice.com.au/312763/automotive-voice-recogni...

https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-pages/end-customer-cam...

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Reason077 on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:40AM (#27262847)
Voice control totally sucks in most cars right now, including Teslas. I'd imagine the reason why its dangerous is because people get frustrated with it and have to start poking around at controls/touch screens to correct whatever commands it misinterpreted.

But I can't imagine any reason why, in the future, a good natural voice interface (Siri level or better) would require any more "mental effort" than having a conversation with someone in your passenger seat.

(The studies you link are referring to the distractions of in-car entertainment systems in general, not specifically the voice interface. The problem is really that drivers are taking their eyes off the road for extended periods to operate the touch screen, which wouldn't be necessary if the voice interface was capable enough)

Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by cosmodisk on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:52AM (#27261970)
Even S class Mercedes went down this way by putting a silly looking tablet in the middle of the car. It just looks bad and as you said,I'd rather have physical knobs instead.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by deepsun on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:55AM (#27261987)
It's just savings -- it's cheaper and easier to update software buttons than hardware.
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by grammarprofess on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:52AM (#27261973)
Having friends and family drive and being in passenger seat, never felt comfortable with people reaching for buttons, knobs for AC or radio. Interesting you find the single large touchscreen to be a bigger distraction/danger than the 20 different controls in a f150
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by Dah00n on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:46AM (#27262548)
Research shows touchscreens are much more dangerous. Even voice control is more dangerous than buttons in all but a few cases (siri and Tesla bad, Toyota okay, etc.).
Re:Ford, Not Tesla, Is Making the Electric Truck That Will C... by grammarprofess on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:26PM (#27284112)
What research? how is it more dangerous? If your tesla regulates AC well and spotify doesn't play Ads or bad radio signal or bad songs. Then you don't have a need to touch the buttons of the radio or the AC. Why the touchscreen is there, is to have nice entertainment while you're charging!