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Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by gjsman-1000 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @04:17PM (#27258203)
"Others are now going in this direction following Apple's lead. Did you forget Apple literally goes so far as to make the screws nonstandard just deliberately out of spite for repair?"

How do you know that it is to spite repair? Apple certainly knows that you can buy those screwdrivers for less than $10 from iFixit for the last 6 years. If it was to purely spite us, you'd think they'd make them more complicated or change them every year.

Instead, a more likely scenario is that it is to prevent people who have no idea what they are doing from following a YouTube tutorial, being overconfident in their abilities, opening a machine, doing more damage, and then having a more expensive repair. Or to prevent my curious 10-year-old from opening the machine just because he wants to have a look and then breaking something. Which is a whole argument entirely as to whether that is warranted, but it isn't necessarily spite.

Error 53? Another example where the actions may be excessive, but it isn't necessarily spite. Can you imagine what a hacked fingerprint sensor could do? If I was a scammer, I'd set up my booth in the mall and swap all my client's fingerprint scanners with fake ones. Yes, Error 53 was an extreme reaction to that risk, but you can't say it was sheer spite.

Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by dataflow on Sunday May 23, 2021 @04:46PM (#27258452)
> Instead, a more likely scenario is that it is to prevent people who have no idea what they are doing from opening a machine, doing more damage, and then having a more expensive repair.

Oh no! So Apple is trying to save people money through all this? We've been so blind to their goodwill...

I like how you change the discussion topic so easily. We went from discussing whether Apple is the worst R2R offender to discussing the quality of their products and now the discussion is about my assessment of precisely what percentage of what Apple does is out of spite instead of other lame excuses to prevent people repairing their products.

The entire discussion is about bad patterns of behavior that have emerged over the years from a particular company called Apple. The history of Apple's behavior is long and people are not going to waste time rehashing it all over again here, especially not when you're already aware of past events and yet only begrudgingly acknowledge their existence as isolated events when others force you to. That makes having a genuine conversation about the topic pretty infeasible.

Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by gjsman-1000 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @06:41PM (#27259303)
Yes, Apple has bad behavior. Sorry, the conversation is sometimes unclear from my Hacker News reader app and so my changing the conversation is probably unintentional as I didn't realize I was doing it, I apologize.

Yes, there is long history of behavior, but I think that there could be more discussion about why Apple does things than just assuming bad behavior. I was trying to give alternative explanations than just "apple is being bad as usual."

Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by dataflow on Sunday May 23, 2021 @06:55PM (#27259387)
The history is absolutely crucial here because the lack of people's interests in "alternative explanations" at this point in time is literally the history. There was room for it in the past, people gave the benefit of the doubt, and then year after year Apple kept debunking it through more and more consistent bad behavior. The ship has sailed already. At some point you gotta realize the doubt that you're so generously trying to give them the benefit of has been vanishing.
Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by josephcsible on Sunday May 23, 2021 @04:58PM (#27258535)
> How do you know that it is to spite repair?

Can you name a single advantage of pentalobe screws over pre-existing standard screw heads like Torx? If not, then Occam's razor is how I know.

Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by samatman on Sunday May 23, 2021 @06:16PM (#27259128)
I can in fact.

Really tiny Torx screws are easy to strip the head on. I've done it more than once, to my considerable regret.

Pentalobes are harder to strip, because a pentagon is less like a circle than a hexagon is.

Are they the Platonic ideal of a screw head for the exact size used in iPhones? No idea, I'm not a mechanical engineer. Just a klutz who has stripped a few tiny Torx screws with my big ol' meat hands.

Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by josephcsible on Sunday May 23, 2021 @06:24PM (#27259204)
Isn't Torx basically a hexagram rather than a hexagon? To me, pentalobe looks closer to circular than Torx does. Also, how much have you worked with tiny pentalobe screws compared to tiny Torx screws? Is it possible you've seen the latter strip more just because you've used them more?
Re:One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks by totalZero on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:09AM (#27261023)
I agree with you in large part, but you are forgetting that pentalobe tools are not easy to find in some countries. In Chile, which is a relatively developed country compared to its neighbors, I went to a shop to buy a pentalobe screwdriver. It took me a couple of afternoons to find the shop. They quoted me something like $35 for a set of screwdrivers (they didn't sell them individually), or $30 to do the service for me.