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Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by cyberlurker on Saturday May 22, 2021 @09:53AM (#27246545)
Would it be possible to pass a law where judges and prosecutors are punished if someone is executed and it’s later found they were not guilty?

Would it be a good or bad idea?

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by Semaphor on Saturday May 22, 2021 @09:57AM (#27246578)
I mean, that would essentially be a law that makes executions illegal. Which is a law that most civilized countries have.
Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by fossislife on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:07AM (#27246658)
It's a law that all civilized countries have. Allowing executions while dismissing evidence makes you uncivilized.
Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by gbrown on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:00AM (#27246610)
It would still allow them to go after notorious people caught in the act where there really is no risk of confusion.

I mean, better to just ban it entirely, but I’d take culpability as a half measure.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by momothereal on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:02AM (#27246623)
If the country in question has a good track record of punishing judges, prosecutors, and LEA, then it would be abolishing the death penalty _de facto_, as no-one would take that sort of risk over just imprisoning the person for life.

If the country does not have a good track record, it doesn't really change anything.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by logicchains on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:09AM (#27246671)
There are sometimes sitautions where someone's guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt; I don't imagine prosecutors would be particularly afraid to pursue the death penalty for someone like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik (who got 21 years in jail for the murder of 77 people).
Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by alex-yark on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:55AM (#27247103)
Whilst that's the maximum permissible sentence in Norway it's worth highlighting that it can be extended indefinitely if he is considered still a risk to society - the requirement to review the need to continue detaining him (on a semi frequent basis) being considered a human right.

Based on his activity since being convicted I doubt he'll be released for significantly longer than his minimum sentence.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by beerandt on Saturday May 22, 2021 @11:34AM (#27247498)
That doesn't sound like much of a "human right" to me, if a maximum sentence can be extended by a parole board.
Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by GavinMcG on Saturday May 22, 2021 @12:03PM (#27247798)
What if it was rephrased as an indefinite sentence, but a minimum of 21 years?

(If the law doesn't permit a longer minimum, then 21 years is the "maximum sentence" in that there cannot be a longer mandatory period imposed.)

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by beerandt on Saturday May 22, 2021 @12:12PM (#27247906)
Yeah- I mean I get that's what happening here. It's just weird to me to consider it a "right."

I just don't see how it's fundamentally any better than the US system of minimum and maximum sentences, with some possibly some provisions for early parole reviewed every year or two after some portion "X" of the sentence has been served.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by coldtea on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:13AM (#27246709)
You could punishes judges even for harsh senteces (of people later exonerated), doesn't have to be just about the death penalty.

And to make it more balanced, you could also punish them for exonerating someone later found guilty (with the available evicence at the first trial re-examined).

Just rough ideas, which might not work at all, but still, as it is judges have no skin in the game (not even their reputation, sometimes it's even the inverse: some judges purposefully give harsh senteces, e.g. to blacks to score political points they'll later exploit).

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by frosted-flakes on Saturday May 22, 2021 @12:10PM (#27247873)
No one would ever want to be a judge then. And your second paragraph is very much in conflict with the tenet that everyone is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by coldtea on Saturday May 22, 2021 @12:59PM (#27248308)
>No one would ever want to be a judge then.

I doubt that. People can be punished if they fail badly, or even die if they make a mistake in all kinds of jobs, and they still do them.

>And your second paragraph is very much in conflict with the tenet that everyone is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Well, if there really wasn't a "reasonable doubt" (as deemed on a second look) and the first judge decided it was, then it's on them...

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by OJFord on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:12AM (#27246702)
Well, GP didn't say what the punishment might be. Could be say X strike(s) and you can no longer preside over such cases.

(Just devils' advocate, I live in a country without it or a need for it.)

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by nabla9 on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:10AM (#27246678)
No. It's not possible. It would be horrible idea.

Law is a process, punishing people who do their duty for the errors in the process when they have not been involved in misconduct would not be justice.

Death penalty itself is wrong.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by coldtea on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:14AM (#27246723)
>Law is a process, punishing people who do their duty for the errors in the process when they have not been involved in misconduct would not be justice.

There are tons of ways to perform badly without misconduct. Companies punish/fire/demote/etc employees who underperform all the time, for example. Or who make bad decisions consistently. Or even a single costly bad decision.

Why should "life of death judging" officials, highly paid at that, get a free pass?

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by teachingassist on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:26AM (#27246840)
The judge's job is to make a decision based on the evidence in front of them. The judge has to weigh the evidence based on their training and knowledge.

That decision might prove in hindsight to be incorrect, based on new information or a fresh perspective. The judge cannot be held accountable for that.

We accept this as part of the job, that difficult decisions cannot always be made perfectly within any legal framework, but still need to be decided.

If this results in disproportionate punishment, the system is at fault - the system of laws - not the judge, who was doing their job.

The judge's decision might alternatively prove to be corrupt, in that the judge has been influenced by something outside of their training, knowledge of the law, and the evidence. The judge should be held accountable for that.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by coldtea on Saturday May 22, 2021 @12:55PM (#27248274)
>The judge's job is to make a decision based on the evidence in front of them. The judge has to weigh the evidence based on their training and knowledge. That decision might prove in hindsight to be incorrect, based on new information or a fresh perspective. The judge cannot be held accountable for that.

Well, I already covered that in another comment: we could still hold them accountable for decisions deemed later to be incorrect with the same data available at the time.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by nabla9 on Saturday May 22, 2021 @10:49AM (#27247045)
Because their 'performance' is to perform their part best they can.

In common law systems (US, UK for example) the trial proceedings is adversarial system. If someone should lose money because the innocent is convicted, it should be the defense lawyer. The trial is a game.

In civil law jurisdictions (like in Continental Europe) the trial is fact-finding public inquiry. The court is more actively involved in investigating the the case.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by coldtea on Saturday May 22, 2021 @12:56PM (#27248281)
>Because their 'performance' is to perform their part best they can.

Well, this "best" should be judged and rewarded or punished too.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by nabla9 on Saturday May 22, 2021 @04:29PM (#27249996)
You are just making normative statements. That's not way to have intelligent discussion.
Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by coldtea on Sunday May 23, 2021 @01:37AM (#27252685)
Kinda, but I didn't ask for a discussion atm, I stated my opinion of what should be, and re-stated parts of it to make clear what that is.

In order to express a desire for a specific change, you need to have normative ideas. At least a conception of how things should be (or shouldn't). So it comes down to, do you agree that judges should not just handle out death sentences, for starters, without any negative consequence on them if they get them wrong?

But note that if my request was normative (it was), the response: "Because their 'performance' is to perform their part best they can" is even less than a normative statement: it's a tautology.

Re:Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA f... by foepys on Saturday May 22, 2021 @09:59AM (#27246599)
It's easier to just get rid of the death sentence all together.