News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by PeterisP on Friday May 21, 2021 @11:21PM (#27243085)
I've thought about it a lot and I don't think it might be achieved.

The trouble is that for the evaluators (all the institutions that can be sources of an incentive structure) it's impossible to distinguish an unpublished 90%-ready Nobel prize from unpublished 90%-ready bullshit. So if you've been working for 4 years on minor, incremental work and published a bunch of papers it's clear that you've done something useful, not extraordinary, but not bad; but if you've been working on a breakthrough and haven't achieved it, then there's simply no data to judge. Are you one step from major success? Or is that one step impossible and will never be achieved? Perhaps all of it is a dead end? Perhaps you're just slacking off on a direction that you know is a dead end, but it's the one thing you can do which brings you some money, so meh? Perhaps you're just crazy and it was definitely a worthless dead end? Perhaps everyone in the field thought that you're just crazy and this direction is worthless but they're actually wrong?

Peter Higgs was a relevant case - IIRC he said in one interview taht for quite some time "they" didn't know what to do with him as he wasn't producing anything much, and the things he had done earlier were either useless or Nobel prize worthy, but it was impossible to tell for many years after the fact. How the heck can an objective incentive structure take that into account? It's a minefield.

IMHO any effective solution has to scale back on accountability and measurability, and to some extent just give some funding to some people/teams with great potential, and see what they do - with the expectation that it's OK if it doesn't turn out, since otherwise they're forced to pick only safe topics that are certain to succeed and also certain to not achieve a breaktrhough. I believe European Research Foundation had a grant policy with similar principles, and I think that DARPA, at least originally, was like that.

But there's a strong entirely opposite pressure from key stakeholders holding the (usually government) purses, their interests are more towards avoiding bad PR for any project with seemingly wasted money, and that results in a push towards these broken incentive structures and mediocrity.

Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by cycomanic on Saturday May 22, 2021 @02:47AM (#27244145)
I would go a step further and say that the value of specific scientific discoveries (even if no bullshit is involved) can often not be evaluated until decades later. Moreover, I would argue that trying to measure scientific value is in fact an effort to try to quantify something unquantifiable.

At the same time, academics have been increasingly been evaluated by some metrics to show value for money. This has let to some schizophrenic incentive structures. Most professor level academics are spending probably around 30% of their time on writing grants, evaluating grants and reporting on grants. Moreover, the evaluation criteria also often demand that work should be innovative, "high risk/high reward" and "breakthrough science", but at the same time feasible (and often you should show preliminary work), which I would argue is a contradiction. This naturally leads to academics overselling their results. Even more so because you are also supposed to show impact.

The main reason for all this IMO is the reduced funding for academic research in particular considering the number of academics that are around. So everyone is competing for a small pot, which makes those that play to the (broken) incentives, the most successful.

Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by eru on Saturday May 22, 2021 @01:16AM (#27243722)
Well, perhaps we can learn from how the startup ecosystem works?

For commercial ventures, you also have the same issue of incremental progress vs big breakthroughs that don't look like much until they are ready.

As far as I can tell, in the startup ecosystem the whole thing works by different investors (various angels and VCs and public markets etc), all having their own process to (attempt to) solve this tension.

There's beauty in competition. And no taxpayer money is wasted here. (Yes, there are government grants for startups in many parts of the world, but that's a different issue from angels evaluating would-be companies.)

Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by Nasrudith on Saturday May 22, 2021 @03:33AM (#27244390)
Start ups are at an entirely different phase that have something research does not - feedback via market success. The USSR already demonstrated what happens when you try to run a process dependent upon price signals with their dead end economic theory attempts to calculate a global fair price.

You get what you measure for applies here. Now if we had some Objective Useful Research Quality Score t could replace the price signals. But then we wouldn't have the problem in the first place, just promote based on OURQS.

Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by eru on Saturday May 22, 2021 @11:59AM (#27247740)
Let people promote with their own money based on what subjective useful researche quality score they feel like.
Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by Haga on Saturday May 22, 2021 @02:12AM (#27243997)
Startups have misaligned incentives in a monopoly ruled world? Build a thousand messenger variations to get acquired by Facebook, comes to mind. So economic thinking might be harmful here?
Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by mixmastamyk on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @05:37PM (#27361683)
Your comments are mostly dead. I didn't see anything wrong with them in a cursory glance.
Re:A new replication crisis: Research that is less likely to... by eru on Saturday May 22, 2021 @11:59AM (#27247747)
Why? If that's what society values, that's what society gets. Who are we to judge?

A 0.1% chance to build an app that's gonna be useful to hundreds of millions of people is better than what most career scientists manage.