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Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by wolverine876 on Friday May 21, 2021 @01:43PM (#27237315)
Also, in our current system the people with actual power are not at all anonymous. I can name all the elected officials. There are some people with influence whom I don't know, but the power is ultimately in the hands of voters and elected representatives. One way you can tell: Many people will spend billions trying to influence those two groups.

> as long as people are involved it is impossible to not have a government, in one form or another.

That's essential: The power is conserved; the question is, who controls it. Every time someone talks about smaller government, they really are talking about shifting the power elsewhere - to whom? It's not necessarily bad, but shifting power from democratic government, however flawed, to a powerful elite, who are more flawed and have no accountability to everyone else, is not a good deal IMHO.

> The ultimate irony, though, is that even with proof-of-stake, the entire crypto-economy becomes owned by a bunch of pseudo-anonymous elites. The end result is the exact same as our current system.

This section seems to contradict the rest of the comment ?

Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by wcarss on Friday May 21, 2021 @02:12PM (#27237733)
> Also, in our current system the people with actual power are not at all anonymous. I can name all the elected officials. There are some people with influence whom I don't know, but the power is ultimately in the hands of voters and elected representatives. One way you can tell: Many people will spend billions trying to influence those two groups.

I think it is more accurate to say that we know some of the people who have power, but influence, money, and violence are also major vehicles for real power, and we mostly don't know who has and uses them throughout the world.

The evidence you gave, that some entities out there expend billions to influence the visible power-holders, only actually shows that spending money has a good ROI for the actors doing it. It does not show that all power is in the hands of democratically elected government officials, nor does it show that power cannot be expressed or utilized in other ways which may be far less visible and more difficult for common persons to direct.

I want to be clear that I'm a fan of government, and I think it has a lot of power and should! Also not a big fan of crypto for solving nearly any problems -- just a drive-by reader on this topic right now. But it does not help any normal people to be naive or optimistic about what power is, who has it, who uses it, or why.

Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by endisneigh on Friday May 21, 2021 @01:48PM (#27237390)
> This section seems to contradict the rest of the comment ?

this is intentional. this is why I said pretend to be democracy. like you've pointed out, there's a contradiction, but it's resolved in accepting that we do have an accountable group of people, however they are also being manipulated, but we don't know who the manipulators are. hence, we're being (indirectly) controlled by pseudo-anonymous elites.

in theory there should be a stable equilibrium between the (corrupt) representatives and the population as they are identified.

at least with democracy we can punish the puppets.

Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by wufufufu on Friday May 21, 2021 @01:55PM (#27237513)
> Also, in our current system the people with actual power are not at all anonymous. I can name all the elected officials.

Crypto doesn't replace elections or government?

Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by cube00 on Friday May 21, 2021 @02:11PM (#27237718)
The government regulates the fiat financial system. Crypto seeks to take on some of the roles of that financial system.
Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by delaaxe on Friday May 21, 2021 @01:51PM (#27237461)
> but the power is ultimately in the hands of voters and elected representatives

Some conspiracy theorists would like to disagree

Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by ska on Friday May 21, 2021 @02:07PM (#27237661)
> Some conspiracy theorists would like to disagree.

Applies to nearly anything. Listening to conspiracy theorists is a very low rate-of-return activity; nearly tautologically.

Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by wolverine876 on Friday May 21, 2021 @02:10PM (#27237696)
So? They say whatever they want.

Also, they think anonymous unelected people running cryptocurrencies will somehow be more transparent?

Re:Proof-of-stake is inherently self-referential by anyfoo on Friday May 21, 2021 @02:08PM (#27237673)
Some conspiracy theorists would like to disagree that the earth is round, that does not give any credence to their argument.