News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca... by astrange on Friday May 21, 2021 @12:07AM (#27230399)
Whenever I've met a French speaker in Japan (which happens surprisingly often) I have always been amazed at their ability to be just as direct in Japanese as they are in French. It turns my ears red and I'm American.

I don't think it's about their opinions, it's just a language you have to be more polite in. Doesn't feel any different from the South or UK to me.

Re:Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca... by henearkr on Friday May 21, 2021 @06:51AM (#27232470)
I'd say it's more cultural than linguistic.

Pure politeness is as well present in French, but in Japan it's an aversion to openly and directly confront others.

You don't have it in Osaka as much as in Tokyo or Kyoto (that's why I'd think it's not the language), and in Tokyo people are overly stressed by their work, commuting, and overpopulation in general, so they need to compensate it by an impressive spectrum of skills for passive agessivity (which is not really better).

Disclaimer of competing interests: I'm a French guy in Japan.

Re:Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca... by Iv on Friday May 21, 2021 @07:15AM (#27232630)
Yes, it is not about politeness, it is about conflict. In France, being frank is a quality, in Japan it is a mark of immaturity. Grown-ups are supposed to communicate their opinions implicitly.

I stopped finding it "interesting and different" when I realized that it led to a LOT of miscommunications even among Japaneses and could end up ruin lives because of the unwillingness to point out even minor things.

Happy to hear this is mostly a Tokyo thing (though it does extend to my coutryside in the Chiba peninsula)

Re:Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca... by deanCommie on Sunday May 23, 2021 @03:04AM (#27252982)
Fired Vancouver Waiter: I'm not rude, I'm just French [1]

I work in the tech industry. As a senior engineer, I've had to mediate MULTIPLE misunderstandings over the years (and also hearing random complaints) about French tech workers being perceived by native English speakers, Indians, Asians as condescending, offensive, or rude.

Having worked with them closely and spent personal time trying to understand them, I know it's not in their hearts. Humans are humans. Rude ones, polite ones, friendly ones, impersonal ones. On a culture-wide scale we all average out. But the language is a problem. I almost feel bad for them.

And so I've literally had to tell people "<so and so> isn't rude, or condescending to you. They're just French."

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43507949