News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How corporations buy and food made with prison labor by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @10:27AM (#27209104)
I don't know, prison is about something. It's not about treating prisoners as law-abiding rights-bearing citizens with the highest level of social leverage.

At what point should prisoners do something, anything, to mitigate what damage they've done to the rest of us? Is planting potatoes in the hot sun in Texas too much to ask? Regular law-abiding folks do it after all.

And note: when folks have to plant potatoes in the hot sun as part of prison, recidivism is very low. For whatever reason, though I'd guess that petty criminals are essentially lazy and having to work a real job is more than they want to do. It changes their outlook, when prison work outweighs the benefit of petty theft etc.

There's a moral dimension (who are we to judge etc) and a political one (out-of-control profiteering). But fundamentally, making prisoners work is not a bad thing.

Re:How corporations buy and food made with prison labor by michaelt on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @10:44AM (#27209348)
> Regular law-abiding folks do it after all.

Prostitution is legal in my country, but it'd be mad unethical to force someone into prostitution against their will.

Re:How corporations buy and food made with prison labor by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @10:54AM (#27209503)
Hey, I meant potato farming. Regular people do it voluntarily. Its not even all that onerous, just hard work. Don't know where that 'prostitution' bit was supposed to be going.
Re:How corporations buy and food made with prison labor by michaelt on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @11:13AM (#27209821)
The fact some people will do something voluntarily doesn't mean it's ethical to force other people to do it against their will.

Therefore, it's irrelevant whether "regular people do it voluntarily" - because it's the being forced against their will that's the ethical issue here.

One illustrative example of this maxim is prostitution.

Re:How corporations buy and food made with prison labor by JoeAltmaier on Thursday May 20, 2021 @12:13PM (#27223056)
But isn't that deliberately ignoring the fact we're talking about prisoners? Not citizens with full rights? So 'making them do something' is the entire point of the exercise.

Its not advancing the topic to exclaim breathlessly about loss of rights, when that's the point of prison. We could be talking about misaligned incentives or effectiveness etc.

Re:How corporations buy and food made with prison labor by batch12 on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:35PM (#27210977)
There are different goals a society can hope to achieve by imprisoning its citizens for crimes depending on its philosophy. These include retribution, rehabilitation, protecting society from the individual, and deterring citizens from committing crime. You are focusing on retribution and deterrence. Planting potatoes in the hot sun does little to mitigate any damage done by a prisoner and seems more like revenge than mitigation.

Training and incentivizing a prisoner to change their behavior (rehabilitation) has a better chance to provide a much larger gain for society in the long run.

> But fundamentally, making prisoners work is not a bad thing.

Forced labor is a violation of human rights. Either these rights are inalienable or they aren't.