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Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by marcan_42 on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:36AM (#27183913)
> MP3 with a good compressor and reasonable bitrate has repeatedly shown to be indistinguishable from uncompressed.

With most samples, yes. The issue, as I said, is that psychoacoustic codecs are basically heuristic by definition, and so you can pretty much always find counterexamples. It's possible to say 320kbps MP3 is indistinguishable from uncompressed for most samples; it is not possible to say it is indistinguishable for all samples, present and future.

It's also the case that lossy encoding is a bad idea if you're going to be further processing the audio in any way; repeated transcodes definitely start bringing out the artifacts more. So lossless music is always something worth having as an option.

Now, when you start talking about "high-resolution" 96/192k 24b stuff... yeah, that's just as good as healing crystals.

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by andybak on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:46AM (#27184032)
> it is not possible to say it is indistinguishable for all samples, present and future.

Are there likely to be real-world cases where this happens - and the effect is detrimental enough to actually matter to anyone?

Surely we're debating "when is it good enough for anyone sane and reasonable?" not "when could a hypothetical oracle be fooled 100%"?

Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by nitrogen on Monday May 17, 2021 @05:21PM (#27188606)
I've commented in the past about a song that is annoyingly altered in 320k MP3: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by marcan_42 on Monday May 17, 2021 @09:34PM (#27190402)
Do you have a FLAC of that around or know where I can buy one? I'm quite curious to try it myself, and see if I can figure out what happened. I wonder if it's an encoder bug, a real format limitation, or a problem with the original song (e.g. a clipping ISP issue, which would be solved by slightly reducing the volume before encoding).
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by andybak on Monday May 17, 2021 @06:47PM (#27189323)
That's actually quite interesting.
Re:Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio by marcan_42 on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:54AM (#27184136)
It is useful to make the distinction, because some people do want to have the highest available quality (and this is not, inherently, a bad thing) - having a hard line that separates out the minor, but nonzero effects, from the pure snake oil, is useful.

And as I said, really, the main reason to avoid lossy compression at this point is due to generational loss and post processing. Lossy compression should be considered a final processing step - what you do to store music that is then going to be delivered directly to a listener, unaltered. If you're going to do anything else, you'd do much better with a lossless version.

That is not to say, of course, that if all you have is a lossy version, it is a major problem :-)

For the record, my lossy format of choice for e.g. putting stuff on my phone is 96kbps Opus. Even that much is excellent for casual listening. But I much prefer to keep lossless FLACs as my primary archival storage - not just because that way I can take advantage of better compression formats as they come (e.g. how I moved from ~130k Vorbis to ~96k Opus), but also because compression makes a massive difference with certain kinds of processing and editing which I sometimes enjoy doing. All the psychoacoustics go out the window if you start doing things like subtracting instrumental mixes from full mixes to get vocal tracks out.