News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by ithkuil on Sunday May 16, 2021 @06:22AM (#27172627)
Two related questions:

1. Would it thus cost the same to operate such a fab in the US?

2. Why did the US outsourced the semiconductor fabrication in the first place? Was it more labour intensive in the past?

Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by baybal2 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @06:29AM (#27172650)
1. Labour-wise probably 3-4 times the Taiwan, but labour cost of fabs is microscopic in comparison to everything else.

Taiwan does not have dramatically lower taxes than US, but there is something particular to how working capital is accounted which will make for a double digit difference in the in TW vs. US.

Third is supplies. Even before the semi moving to Asia, US fabs had to import a big portion of their supplies.

2. > Why did the US outsourced the semiconductor fabrication in the first place

Why did US outsource almost everything, even when it makes no sense?

It simply tough, tedious, problematic doing business in the US.

I wrote about it many times before here.

You mind your own business, very much literally. Few month down the line some trouble comes: lawsuit, taxmen, utilities, creditors, SEC, city hall, suppliers, random activists, labour union... pick any.

Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by imtringued on Sunday May 16, 2021 @06:53AM (#27172762)
>1. Labour-wise probably 3-4 times the Taiwan, but labour cost of fabs is microscopic in comparison to everything else.

Building a fab requires labor, a lot of it.

Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by baybal2 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @06:57AM (#27172782)
There are only 2-3 construction companies globally who build factories as complex as modern semi fabs.

Imagine, where they get their workers? They import them all from their home countries.

Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by ithkuil on Sunday May 16, 2021 @07:07AM (#27172821)
What are their home countries? Sorry I could do my own research, but since you made a comment that implied you had a piece of information at hand, I feel I may just get it easier this way.
Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by baybal2 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @07:45AM (#27173001)
Exyte (Germany) was a big one. I myself haven't been up to date with news in the industry for around 10 years since I abandoned all attempts to enter the industry.
Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by inglor_cz on Sunday May 16, 2021 @06:42AM (#27172719)
As for 2), it is less about outsourcing and more about gradual loss of competitiveness. The scientific and technological development between 2000 and 2020 led to a lot of corporations, not just in the U.S., falling out of the race because they could not keep up the pace. Nowadays, only Samsung and TSMC are left, with Intel lagging behind, but still not completely out.

Similar consolidations have happened in the past and in other industrial fields. This time, two of the three surviving champions are simply not American.

Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by lumost on Sunday May 16, 2021 @11:55AM (#27174510)
This is an interesting take, I'd be curious how it applies to other industries. Is outsourcing an artifact of loss of technical/execution competence required to be competitive?
Re:Samsung boosts non-memory chip investment to $151B by throwaway_45 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @12:49PM (#27174950)
In general its a dirty process. There are a lot of toxic chemicals involved. People might get sick. Margins aren't as good as software and its very capital intensive so investors would rather invest in software. Lots of booms and bust in the semiconductor industry.