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Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by nicklecompte on Saturday May 15, 2021 @03:28PM (#27168128)
Quite a contrast in reactions between the guy who made millions of dollars from the OneCoin scam and bought a big fancy house:

> After Dr Ruja's non-appearance in Lisbon, a point came when Igor Alberts, like Jen McAdam, asked to see evidence of the blockchain. He didn't get it, and in December 2017 he quit.

> I ask if he felt guilty, for having sold so many people a coin that didn't exist, and for having made so much money in the process.

> "I felt responsibility. Not guilt," he replies. "You can never be blamed for believing in something. I had no clue that it could be false. I didn't even know what is a blockchain… What doubt can I have?"

Versus the woman who lost a lot of money and convinced her friends/family to also throw away their money:

> By contrast, Jen McAdam says she bears a heavy burden of guilt. I ask her how much she earned from selling OneCoin and she says it was €3,000 - €1,800 of which she received in cash, and which she used to buy more OneCoin.

The line about “you can never be blamed for believing in something” is of course self-evidently ridiculous and not something Mr. Roberts would pretend to believe in any other context. But “I’m not a bad person, I was a hapless victim like everyone else” has a compelling logic when you’re profiting from a bad system.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by danmaz74 on Saturday May 15, 2021 @05:49PM (#27169335)
As the article says, Igor Alberts was already an established multi level marketer making a lot of money with other products when he started with OneCoin. Considering the nature of MLM, I'm not at all surprised about him being rather impervious to feelings of guilt.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by jollybean on Saturday May 15, 2021 @06:00PM (#27169411)
Cryptos are MLM's.

If you made a really solid crypto today, that was designed to remain solid and relatively flat, it wouldn't be popular - because the whole attraction is the 'easy money' euphoria.

No euphoria, no attention.

It's why a 'really good Bitcoin' - which tried to price at $1 USD today, and remain at that real valuation and avoid devaluation, would be hard pressed to exist - it wouldn't take hold. Or rather - that kind of financial instrument would have to be sold to banks, not small change MLM people, and banks are really conservative. It may happen at some point.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by wnevets on Saturday May 15, 2021 @06:45PM (#27169667)
Elon wouldn't be tweeting about it that's for damn sure.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by gh55 on Saturday May 15, 2021 @06:34PM (#27169611)
Tether, the 6th largest cryptocurrency has a market cap of ~$160B, seems pretty "popular" to me.

USDC TUSD and BUSD are further popular examples.

Cryptocurrencies are not MLMs, you would do yourself a huge favour by learning what they are.

In brief, Bitcoin is a scarce asset, and Ethereum is the credit required to run trustless logical conditions relating to a transaction, and also securing assets involved in those conditions.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by imtringued on Sunday May 16, 2021 @11:58AM (#27174532)
>Cryptocurrencies are not MLMs, you would do yourself a huge favour by learning what they are.

I did and it changed absolutely nothing. It's literally just the dot com bubble all over again but it keeps coming back every 3 years.

Here, I'll explain the core problem of the dot com bubble. People started internet companies with basically close to zero revenue. To convince investors to buy in they used weird non standard metrics that indicate popularity and growth potential like page views. The fact that these businesses were not earning money let the imagination of investors run wild. Companies that were actually earning money had much lower valuations back then, because people immediately understood the value proposition and that growth isn't endless.

It's the same with Bitcoin. There is no reason why it should have such a high market cap. It's only riding network effects but those are all there is to it, MLMs are exactly the same, they endlessly recruit members and that is how they make money.

Because there are no other reasons, the imaginations of speculators run wild. They will come up with an endless number of bullshit reasons that you have to cross check. When the initial pitch turns out to be wrong, they just shift goalposts and come up with another reason. Remember, Bitcoin started out as a currency, then became a store of value and now it is becoming a settlement layer.

Really, if you want to gamble your money in Bitcoin, do it with the realization that it's just that, a gamble with better odds than a conventional casino.

The vast majority of people don't buy Bitcoin because they want a deflationary currency that goes up slightly faster than inflation, they buy into it because of its volatility and ability to generate otherwise impossibly large returns fueled by future investors.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by sombremesa on Sunday May 16, 2021 @03:06PM (#27176114)
I buy bitcoin because I want to own bitcoin and have the money to burn - there can only ever be 21 million, so it has a collector appeal. I don't really give a shit about selling or using it, so the valuation doesn't matter to me.

To me, bitcoin is first and foremost a brand.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by softawre on Monday May 17, 2021 @10:40AM (#27183964)
You buy bitcoin and don't care at all about how much it is valued at? I call malarkey.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by DonHopkins on Sunday May 23, 2021 @12:30PM (#27256293)
I roll coal because I want people I don't like to breath coal smoke and I want to contribute to global warming and I have the coal and money to burn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPMbLO4pAY

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by Barrin92 on Saturday May 15, 2021 @11:52PM (#27171068)
>Tether, the 6th largest cryptocurrency has a market cap of ~$160B, seems pretty "popular" to me.

MLM creates tens of billions in revenue per year in the US alone. Cryptocurrencies aren't inherently marketing schemes but they're pretty close to it and most of the value they have on markets today is basically a case of a 'greater fool' mechanism.

Also market caps for crypto is pretty meaningless. If I mint a trillion random coins and manage to sell a bunch for a dollar I'm the richest man on earth by market cap. Market cap without considering liquidity is meaningless and most if not all of these coins will go to zero as soon as someone actually tries to sell them en masse.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by jollybean on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:47PM (#27169981)
"you would do yourself a huge favour by learning what they are."

Yes, please do that.

Cryptos are about economics, capital, greed, manias than they are anything technical or block chain.

Cryptos are de-facto scams, irrespective of what some founders or participants might think, at least as of today.

That you can theoretical buy cleaning supplies from Amway does not make it not a scam.

There is nary any value in any of them, and given some of their costs vis-a-vis electricity usage, their 'net value' is definitely very negative.

Anyone with a shred of understanding of actual monetary finance and human nature can see them for what they are.

I think most people do.

Digital currencies have a future in some form, but most (all?) of the cryptos we see today are just straight up 'hustles'.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by gh55 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @06:12AM (#27172591)
For me, knowing that a contract will be followed regardless of the wishes of any party involved is very valuable. Knowing that an asset will remain scarce, its issuance predictable, and that I can store it securely at extremely low cost, is very valuable.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by free652 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @07:45AM (#27173002)
Crypto are a scam these days. The contract can be changed, it isn't set in stone. Look at the Ethererum and Ethereum Classic.

While they are called crypto currencies, most of them if not all aren't used as currencies.

I just to give a hint I am involved since 2011 and just dumped all crypto. When I get crypto tips from strangers at my son's swimming team, it's about time to quit it.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by jollybean on Sunday May 16, 2021 @10:44AM (#27174058)
"Knowing that an asset will remain scarce, its issuance predictable, and that I can store it securely at extremely low cost, is very valuable."

You can achieve this any number of ways and it has nothing to do with currency or money. FYI Gold, which you can buy a million different ways.

But since prices are crazy volatile, and it could be worth $0 tomorrow, it can't be used as currency, and it makes a terrible store of value.

For every 'practical reason' to use a crypto, there are already many other better solutions.

The only 'real reason' people buy them is because they want to make money flipping it and that's it.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by imtringued on Sunday May 16, 2021 @12:02PM (#27174559)
Bitcoin has outperformed gold significantly in the past, so that can't be the reason why people buy it. They'd stop buying it because it is overpriced.

Now that inflation is up again, people are realizing that fact. Gold is going up, Bitcoin is going down.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by TazeTSchnitzel on Saturday May 15, 2021 @06:55PM (#27169714)
The vast majority of the Tether market cap is fake money (not actually backed by USD). It will collapse if enough people try to cash out.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by gh55 on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:06PM (#27169770)
As per terms of settlement with NYAG, Tether will be disclosing details of their reserves on a regular basis from now on to NYAG, let's see how fake USDT is - NYAG seem satisfied for now that it is backed by full reserves.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by TazeTSchnitzel on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:11PM (#27169790)
They recently released “details” and less than 3% of Tethers are backed by actual USD.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by kemonocode on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:19PM (#27169833)
I don't like Tether as it's no different from fractional reserve banks, but as long as the NYAG remains content with what she sees, it's sound money. Been waiting its supposed collapse for half a decade now with bated breath, but it still has yet to happen.

Disclaimer: I own zero USDT and an insignificant amount of USDC, being rather skeptical on "stablecoins" in general.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by Clewza313 on Saturday May 15, 2021 @08:20PM (#27170149)
NYAG stated that "Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie" and banned it entirely from New York.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by jollybean on Saturday May 15, 2021 @11:46PM (#27171038)
"I don't like Tether as it's no different from fractional reserve banks,"

That reserves don't add up to the currency in circulation is somewhat similar to a central bank but the similarities end there and they are basically nothing alike.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by imtringued on Sunday May 16, 2021 @11:31AM (#27174321)
Will a government bail out Tether when its institution goes bust? If not then, then it is far worse than fractional reserve banks.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by exhorresco on Saturday May 15, 2021 @09:15PM (#27170390)
From the photos in the article, you can clearly see the delight in their eyes. The type of delight which only lying can deliver. I believe it's called "duping delight". I'd be willing to bet that Igor Alberts is all too familiar given his background.

https://www.paulekman.com/blog/duping-delight/

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by croes on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:59PM (#27170050)
That guy in the article

>"I did the calculation how many coins we needed to become the richest person on the planet," Igor says. "I said to Andreea, 'We need to build it up to 100 million coins, because when this coin goes to €100 and we have 100 million, we are richer than Bill Gates.' It's mathematic. It's easy as that."

100€ * 100 million = 10 billion€ Bill Gates net worth 2016 was 76 billion dollars. So much for "It's mathematic. It's easy as that."

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by dleslie on Saturday May 15, 2021 @04:44PM (#27168836)
It certainly is a bizarre argument. With absolution of guilt for wrongly held beliefs, one could engage in deplorable actions without a tinge of later guilt.

We all have a responsibility to question our beliefs, and what harm our actions cause.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by marnett on Saturday May 15, 2021 @04:51PM (#27168895)
Yes we do have that responsibility and obligation. Reading his fallacious defense had me immediately thinking of the essay “The Ethics of Belief”[0].

[0] http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by FpUser on Saturday May 15, 2021 @05:12PM (#27169074)
>"We all have a responsibility to question our beliefs, and what harm our actions cause."

Can you point me to any source that spells it in legal terms in relation to general public (not specific cases like food inspector)? Like some written law.

Also if existed think of what would such law would to to politicians unless they're specifically exempt.

Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by dleslie on Saturday May 15, 2021 @05:30PM (#27169210)
Laws are not always rules for ethical behaviour, let alone the authoritative rules for ethical behaviour.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by FpUser on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:22PM (#27169853)
that was my point. you can blame the guy all you want but asking why he is not in jail was on a basis of ethics is not the brightest idea
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by dleslie on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:48PM (#27169983)
We're discussing his absence of feeling guilt; not his legal culpability.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by FpUser on Saturday May 15, 2021 @08:16PM (#27170130)
True, I misread it. My bad.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by valtism on Saturday May 15, 2021 @10:41PM (#27170781)
Igor Alberts has struck me as about as much as a cartoon villain type as I have ever seen. Obsessed with money and completely lacking in any sense of empathy. His excuses ring very hollow.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by forgotpwd16 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @01:49PM (#27175524)
The "didn't know" statement seems like a blatant lie as that guy started DagCoin, an OneCoin's strategy clone, soon after. Especially considering, as he run an MLM which is basically a legal pyramid scheme, he has a good knowledge of this business.
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by ivanhoe on Saturday May 15, 2021 @06:38PM (#27169630)
Perhaps she's just a more socially skillful, so she offered a better sounding excuse? That guy has a douche written all over his face, but that doesn't mean others involved are any better...
Re:Cryptoqueen: A woman scammed the world, then vanished (2019) by nicklecompte on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:50PM (#27169994)
I would argue the person who was extremely successful in MLM is likely very “socially skillful.” It certainly doesn’t meant he’s tactful or decent, and his attitude isn’t uncommon.

But I agree you don’t need to say think one person is “inherently” more ethical than the other: all else being equal, the person who got badly burned by MLM is going to be more empathetic than the MLM millionaire.