Even modern hyenas are formidable and I would not want to be surrounded by a pack of them. They regularly duel with lions.

Yea, I’m not sure what the commenter means by implying not formidable and being the size of dogs. Modern hyenas are not small by any means and are the size of the largest dog breeds and are much stronger.

https://alumni.duke.edu/sites/default/files/dm-main-images/p...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETcFOq3UcAEjG8Y?format=png&name=...

A modern hyena could trivially kill a human all by itself (hyenas have literally bone crushing jaws), which doesn’t even consider a pack of them.

I actually found this video where a hyena basically took what it wanted from a leopard before the leopard took its prey up a tree. (Warning: predators with dead prey.)

https://youtu.be/cYzogF9IVLI

I did not say nor imply "not formidable". I said and meant "quite a bit more formidable". But, to your point: the overwhelming majority of humans killed by hyenas are killed by packs of hyenas, not individuals, and there is a reason for this. I definitely dispute the idea that a single modern hyena can kill a human "trivially".

Particularly a human with a pocket full of stones.

I love how the leopard looks over its shoulder with a look that I anthropomorphized as an incredulous gaze, similar to the one my cat gives as my border collie runs around the house. "Can you believe this?"

> I actually found this video where a hyena basically took what it wanted from a leopard before the leopard took its prey up a tree. (Warning: predators with dead prey.) > https://youtu.be/cYzogF9IVLI

The two animals were surprisingly "civil" given the amount of damage they could have inflicted on each other...

I guess it's that predators budget their energy usage and evaluate the risks of confrontations. A wound would probably lead to infection and death, and expending energy fighting another big predator when you could spend that energy hunting instead...

I wouldn't even want to be surrounded by a pissed off pack of Airedales, forget hyenas.

As a member of the canine family myself[0], I would like to point out that there are a few dog breeds that can at least come close to 225 lbs. [1]

That said, yikes! Regular hyenas are scary, but add another 100 lbs on one, and we're talking nightmare fuel.

IIRC, modern hyenas tend not to attack people, generally. The way they mention the skeletons having been found at different sedimentary layers makes me think these guys are similar in that respect, which kinda dampens the whole "nightmare fuel" thing. At least, I hope so.

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[0]: Not actually a novelty account. I just thought it was a funny username.

[1]: https://topdogtips.com/worlds-largest-dog-breeds/

Hyenas are actually more closely related to cats than dogs.

Hyenas are super cruel. It seems from many videos they take down beasts by biting off balls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9kmX0kFq2M (CW: graphic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2k9LFb-VtY (CW: graphic)

In yet other cases they just start eating the animal from before it's even dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0kNW4KQCoY (CW: graphic)

Very different from many cat family predators that usually kill their prey first.

> Hyenas are super cruel. It seems from many videos they take down beasts by biting off balls.

Chimps rip balls off, gouge eyes, etc. Snakes use venom. Some plants drown and dissolve their prey in acid. It's not a matter of "cruelty", it's a matter of the tools available to these animals.

> In yet other cases they just start eating the animal from before it's even dead.

There are animals/plants that eat their prey whole and dissolve them in acid. Ultimate goal of these animals is to eat, not to kill. What do you want the hyena to do?

> Very different from many cat family predators that usually kill their prey first.

Not because of some moral code. Because they don't want the prey attracting other predators. There are videos of cats eating live prey when it is convenient for them. A particular gruesome one is a pride of lions eating a live baby elephant.

There is no "cruelty" in nature. Only efficiency. These animals want to eat and do what they can with what they have.

Is it cruel for wasps to parasitically control insects, bugs, etc and lay eggs in them so that their eggs/larvae could feed on these hosts? A hyena is no more "cruel" than an earthquake is "cruel" for unleashing a tsunami that drowns thousands of people.

Only humans are cruel. Nature is simply nature.

Relax, I wasn't trying to make a moral argument. I was just saying that the suffering endured by those animals from a hyena seems much more than if they had been caught by many other similar-sized predators that tend to kill quickly.

It's also interesting that hyenas don't care to kill first, because another big reason to kill your prey as quickly as possible is that it stops fighting, and has less potential to injure you. If the hyena had gone for the neck first the animal would be down quickly and the hyena could eat in peace.

applying human concepts like 'cruelty' to an obligate carnivore that evolved that way is a weird idea.

this bird looks super cute, but...

https://www.audubon.org/news/shrikes-have-absolutely-brutal-...

I'm not trying to make a moral argument, I'm just saying that those that fall prey to hyenas suffer much more than if they had fallen prey to a number of other predators that tend to kill swiftly before eating (feline predators and snakes for example kill quickly; many birds also tend to kill on the first strike).

Hyenas don't bother killing, they just eat, and tend to start from non-vital organs, of all places, which is quite different from what most predators would do.

I'm no wildlife biologist but it seems that hyenas are not big enough to take down some of their prey by the neck (without high risk of injury to themselves, where a broken leg probably means certain death), so the evolutionary adaptation is to go for the soft underbelly. Undoubtedly the prey animals do feel pain and suffer.