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Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by paxys on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:22PM (#27125631)
They are all problems with the protocol, considering that the protocol doesn't define how to do any of this.
Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by chii on Thursday May 13, 2021 @07:15AM (#27140812)
The protocol doesn't need to define any of those things. Just like HTTP doesn't define what goes on inside the viewport of the browser.
Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by babypuncher on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:26PM (#27148281)
That is the problem. The protocol doesn't dictate how prior messages in a thread should be included or referenced. So any given thread is a hodgepodge of different solutions, making for an ugly, unreadable mess. Some clients try to clean this up, but it's basically an impossible task when you have no way of knowing what other clients will do.
Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by darau1 on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:04PM (#27125850)
Then should we not amend the protocol to define these things? Why reinvent the wheel, when we could improve it?
Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by paxys on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:27PM (#27125958)
Yes we should, but people have been trying for 20 years and it hasn't happened yet. The wheel has been successfully reinvented already.

The biggest reason for it is that in practice email isn't as open and decentralized as people like to think. For most of its history all advancements were controlled by Microsoft, AOL and Yahoo, and today it is controlled by Microsoft and Google.

Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by jjav on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @02:20AM (#27127267)
> Then should we not amend the protocol to define these things?

Most of the OP list of things they don't like are about client UI presentation. Inherently unrelated to the protocol itself.

I don't have any of those issues because I use a client that does the interaction and presentation exactly how I like it.

Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by jameshart on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @08:54AM (#27129734)
I don’t understand how your client can solve for someone else sending you top-quoted replies, or word-html-engine compatible HTML designed to work in outlook. Or eighty other people hitting reply all on the email chain you’re on. The clients other people use can behave completely differently, because the protocol leaves so many decisions up to clients.
Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by jjav on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @05:02PM (#27135111)
You're adding things not in the OP list I was responding to so I didn't claim that. But let's try:

Reformatting top-quoted replies. This is possible with email because you can pipe the messages through any preprocessing you want. Inserting custom processing into the delivery pipeline is generally impossible with all proprietary systems, but easy with an open standard like email.

HTML formatting: Again, easy due to customizable preprocessing and/or viewers.

Eighty people responding to a thread: This is threading, handled natively by most good email clients. Gmail makes a mess of it though, so I get why it'd be painful if you use gmail. Don't use gmail.

> because the protocol leaves so many decisions up to clients.

I feel like this is a misunderstanding. The clients have nothing to do with the protocol (SMTP), that's the job of the MTAs (mail transport agents).

The client provides the UI/UX interaction part. It is an immense strength of standards like email that there are tons of clients. You may want a completely different UX with your email than me, so you're free to have it exactly the way you want and so am I. And we can still message each other. This is impossible with proprietary walled gardens.

Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by jameshart on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:47AM (#27140668)
Client support for the features you’re talking about has everything to do with the protocol. How are you threading if not based on SMTP headers? What SMTP headers are meaningful for threading? What does SMTP have to say on the subject? Nothing - because it only talks about MTA behavior not clients.
Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by babypuncher on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @12:58PM (#27132491)
You have some magical email client that turns "reply all" firehoses into clean Slack/Discord-style message threads?
Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by jjav on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @04:49PM (#27135000)
Slack threads are the worst possible UI ever, so that's not something to aspire to.

Email threading is trivial, nothing magical about it. Most every decent email client will properly thread conversations. Gmail will not, so yes gmail is super painful for long threads. Use a better client.

Re:Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything by darau1 on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @06:07AM (#27128590)
What client is that?