The New York Times criticizes dark patterns, but fails to criticize themselves

Re:The New York Times criticizes dark patterns, but fails to... by freshair on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:35PM (#27120952)

Suppose I am an alcoholic drinking myself to death, and my friend is as well. I tell my friend that he should stop drinking.

That would make me a hypocrite, but it wouldn't make me wrong. Pointing out hypocrisy to 'dunk on' people is rarely a persuasive rebuttal.

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Re:The New York Times criticizes dark patterns, but fails to... by amelius on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:39PM (#27121018)

A better analogy would be if you told the world that your friend should stop drinking.

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Re:The New York Times criticizes dark patterns, but fails to... by freshair on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:44PM (#27121092)

In this analogy I am still a hypocrite but I'm still dead-right, so sure.

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Re:The New York Times criticizes dark patterns, but fails to... by SilasX on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:41PM (#27121059)

I disagree. Hypocrisy allegations are expressing an important insight: "Obviously, moralizing about X isn't helpful because you know it's wrong, and you still do it", and further, "maybe you should use your special position as someone tempted to X to provide insight on what would stop you".

In your example, you're drinking yourself to death despite knowing it's stupid, and probably despite others telling you not to. Why would you think lecturing your friend helps?

Your reaction should be, "hey, what would stop me from drinking? Maybe I should try that and propose it for my friend too?"

In the NYT example, they should know why they're using the dark patterns, and what would get them to stop, and should be proposing that.

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