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Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by underwater on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:12AM (#27115512)
I work for a startup that benefits from open source.

I can and do make the case for spending a lot of money on SaaS products and hiring people. But there is no way in the world I can stand in front of company leadership and ask for money to spend on something that I already get for free. I'd look out of touch with the realities of running a business and the request would be roundly shouted down.

If there's some value I can get then it's a much easier sell. For example, if there is a Babel job board then I can choose to use that over alternatives when I next hire. Jed Watson proposed https://budgetforopensource.org/, which puts this type of thing in the employee perk category so that I can justify it using hiring as a goal. These are things where I can make a business case for spending real dollars, rather than a philosophical argument.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by cycomanic on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:50AM (#27115780)
The irony about this is that it's the same companies then complaining that development is not being continued or not going in the direction they want.

Essentially what you're saying is that the realities of running a business is the equivalent of a millionaire going to the local soup kitchen/food bank and taking as much food as possible and then complaining about the food.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by plasma on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:17AM (#27115550)
> But there is no way in the world I can stand in front of > company leadership and ask for money to spend on something > that I already get for free. I'd look out of touch with > the realities of running a business. The request would be > roundly shouted down.

I agree, at minimum, the its free but seeking sponsorship model is making it hard.

Looking at their Sponsorship options on GitHub [1] I see there's a useful perk at the $2,000/month price point, a Support Tier.

It would be interesting to investigate offering "Paid support" for $50-100/month (something easier to put on a development team's corporate credit card), that gives you "priority" in response to GitHub Issues.

Something tangible that the company gets back.

[1] https://github.com/sponsors/babel?o=esb

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by bsder on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:24AM (#27115605)
Yeah, that jump from $20/month to $500/month is too big. JetBrains asks for $500 per year--that's probably right about the discretionary spend of a decent engineer.

$500/month means you're going to have to generate me an invoice and that invokes a whole bunch of corporate machinery that you don't want activated if you want a donation.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by creshal on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:50AM (#27115783)
> JetBrains asks for $500 per year

For IntelliJ; their other tools are $200 a year. And I suspect the average enterprise Java engineer has more discretionary spending than a random JS fullstack devsecops person.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by Pet_Ant on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @11:53AM (#27119640)
> suspect the average enterprise Java engineer has more discretionary spending

Engineers get discretionary spending? I haven't ever had a dollar discretionary. My last job paid for an ergo mouse for me (Logitech Vertical) at hire time and I was so ecstatic at the park and got myself a jumbo mousepad to go with it.

Is there a norm I'm not aware of?

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by bsder on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:20PM (#27124324)
> Is there a norm I'm not aware of?

Maybe?

Everywhere I've worked in the US, I always had some level of discretionary spend--even as a lowly summer intern at a behemoth like IBM. It could be software; it could be books; it could be training; it could be computer hardware; it could be lab equipment; it could be groceries or office supplies.

As an intern, I bought some of the first O'Reilly books (mostly about X11) at the Cucumber Book Shop in Bethesda, Maryland courtesy of IBM. As someone way more senior, I once put a T3 line card (about $15K at the time) on my credit card in order to break a budgetary logjam between two feuding departments (and made BOTH of them angry at me--it was beautiful).

Obviously, the more junior I was--the less the value of that spend was. And it went up as I became more senior. And I always had to provide receipts and maybe a bit of justification.

But I've always had some level of discretionary cash spending at even the crappiest companies I've worked for.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by mLuby on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @02:38PM (#27121805)
Same, though I've heard of expensing software or business books, and of course conferences.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by kyawzazaw on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @11:58PM (#27126431)
yeah at my company. they just submit a small ticket
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by bsder on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:37AM (#27116044)
Sorry, I never even noticed their "teams" things. And it looks like the full pack is now $650.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by indemnity on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:16AM (#27116630)
Holy shit, I must be grandfathered in, I’m still paying US$150 per year for the all products pack.

Just paid three days ago too.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by ipsi on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:43AM (#27116863)
It's €650 for the all-products pack for an organisation, or €250 for an individual, dropping to €199 in the second year, and €150 in the third+ year, which probably explains it.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by tehnicaorg on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:49AM (#27116912)
149€, third year onwards, individual use
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by easton on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:54AM (#27116962)
But the individual license can be used at work, it just can’t be transferred to another person since it’s licensed to you.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by no_wizard on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @11:31AM (#27119310)
It’s a smart model I have to say. I continue to use JetBrains no matter where I work and I take the cost of the sub as a business expense on my taxes and get a deduction, so it in the long run costs even less
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by KptMarchewa on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:36AM (#27118589)
And you can't be reimbursed for it in any way.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by ta988 on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:22AM (#27117763)
You can get free licences for Open Source projects from Jetbrains. Babel would likely be eligible.
Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by bengale on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:46AM (#27115759)
> can and do make the case for spending a lot of money on SaaS products and hiring people. But there is no way in the world I can stand in front of company leadership and ask for money to spend on something that I already get for free. I'd look out of touch with the realities of running a business and the request would be roundly shouted down.

You're right is very difficult. It feels like there needs to be a product version of these tools, I can definitely explain to my partners that we need this tool and it costs £xxx. But to explain that we should pay for free tools when we might be one of a very few that are is going to be a hard sell.

Re:Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of m... by notimetorelax on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:21AM (#27115582)
Corps I worked for usually seek to create some kind of contractual obligation between the authors and the company. Of course they pay to get the authors to accept the obligations.