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Re:Apple Silicon Hardware: SPRR and Guarded Exception Levels... by varispeed on Friday May 07, 2021 @03:28PM (#27079943)
It only takes one government to make it happen (or even a state that is large enough that manufacturers will not choose to stop selling products there). If this was passed e.g. in California, that would open the access up for almost anyone in the world.
Re:Apple Silicon Hardware: SPRR and Guarded Exception Levels... by Jtsummers on Friday May 07, 2021 @03:35PM (#27080023)
It would be practically unenforceable if CA did it, or even the US. The market in both is large, but not large enough, and it's hard to force compliance on companies from other countries.

The result would be similar to the protectionist trade policies that hamper market entry for foreign produced goods in India and some Latin American countries like Argentina. There are enough customers elsewhere whose governments wouldn't give a thought to this that non-CA/US companies would safely ignore CA/US in this case. It would only work with coordinated effort.

There are also other second order effects not considered by a policy like this.

What's the timeline and what's the company scale that this levies?

Is the documentation expected on day 1? Great, Apple and Google and Sony and others will squash all small competitors. You will never see another small (< 20) person hardware startup (not that we see them often anyways) because the cost to produce this kind of documentation is non-zero, and the big players can easily absorb it into their processes. Additionally, small players would literally be handing the design to competitors. OK, maybe patents and things like that stop some companies from being bad actors and reproducing the product in short order, but it won't stop everyone especially in countries with laxer or no enforcement of patents.

Additionally, problems would be created if designs were produced in non-compliant countries. If I start up a hardware company and make a new device, but half my components are designed in Taiwan and they've decided to explicitly reject this, am I non-compliant for not releasing documentation I don't have the authority to release? And if I'm able to become exempted because of a 3rd party component, everyone else would start shifting their design departments to contractors (if necessary) in those countries or shift a portion of their company there.

Re:Apple Silicon Hardware: SPRR and Guarded Exception Levels... by varispeed on Friday May 07, 2021 @05:14PM (#27080916)
This is wrong on so many levels, but I will address this one:

> You will never see another small (< 20) person hardware startup (not that we see them often anyways) because the cost to produce this kind of documentation is non-zero, and the big players can easily absorb it into their processes.

I highly doubt that small players would be affected at all, because a small player wouldn't produce a custom chip. The level of documentation required is akin to API documentation that many services produce and this is not revealing any trade secrets, but enables customer to make full use of the device. If you create a product without any documentation, then you have bigger problems.

> If I start up a hardware company and make a new device, but half my components are designed in Taiwan and they've decided to explicitly reject this, am I non-compliant for not releasing documentation I don't have the authority to release?

This is false, because it is companies like Apple that tell component manufacturers to not sell or to not disclose documentation. Virtually any chip that you can get on an open market has complete documentation available. If you are ordering a custom chip, you shouldn't be allowed to tell manufacturer to not sell it to anyone else nor hide its documentation if it goes into your product.

If you were actually working in hardware design space you would know that what is being asked does not compromise trading secrets, it is done solely out of greed so that people are nudged towards subscription models and becoming dependent on a particular corporation.

Re:Apple Silicon Hardware: SPRR and Guarded Exception Levels... by lodovic on Saturday May 08, 2021 @05:54AM (#27085558)
Perhaps the courts could force component manufacturers to release the basic specs anyway, regardless of any agreement they may have with Apple. That way they would need to choose between complying and produce documentation on request, or have the component banned for use.
Re:Apple Silicon Hardware: SPRR and Guarded Exception Levels... by wolverine876 on Friday May 07, 2021 @05:05PM (#27080857)
> It would be practically unenforceable if CA did it, or even the US. The market in both is large, but not large enough, and it's hard to force compliance on companies from other countries.

The U.S. regularly imposes plenty of requirements that are far more difficult to meet, in many industries. The U.S. is the largest market in the world for many goods; I think the parent greatly underestimates the power and practices of national governments. Smaller countries also impose requirements.

Re:Apple Silicon Hardware: SPRR and Guarded Exception Levels... by smoldesu on Friday May 07, 2021 @03:42PM (#27080097)
What you're outlining right now are issues that affect the status quo anyways. Small companies always fight an uphill battle with larger ones, and copyright law is almost never respected: what else is new? Even still, they're weak excuses not to provide the public with information that likely already exists.
Re:Apple Silicon Hardware: SPRR and Guarded Exception Levels... by Jtsummers on Friday May 07, 2021 @03:49PM (#27080144)
I'd contend that a requirement like this, without exemptions for small businesses, would make things worse for small businesses than big businesses and worse than the present situation. It's similar to many other legal regulatory requirements, small businesses end up bearing an outsized cost relative to their revenue.

And if you create exemptions for small businesses, the big businesses would do exactly what they always do, find loopholes to get subsidiaries/contractors to do the work and exempted and nullify the entire thing.

As nice as it would be to bring back (easier) access to system specs, it's impractical without fundamental culture changes that laws themselves don't usually produce.