So you are saying, that I as a Web developer should just become a native app developer?

Well no, thanks.

I know that native apps are superior in performance over web apps, sure. And I certainly won't say every app has to become a pwa.

But for most simple apps, webtechnologies as a plattform are mature and performant enough.

And if you never would want to install one - thats your decision. But my decision is, that I don't want to specifically target apple technology. Just like with Microsoft, Samsung, LG, Google or whoever wants to copy apples walled garden.

I like plattform independent.

All right, so you know native apps are better, but you don't care.

So you put yourself before your users.

But you don't like Apple puts themselves & their users before you.

Turns out users should side with Apple in this case...

Wow. So we are down to insults?

Well then: how about you as a apple user only care about yourself and want every developer to cater for your special needs?

And don't care that most of the world has no apple device (and maybe don't want to, or can't afford).

And I as a developer want to target a neutral plattform. Because I care about all my potential users and not just apple and android ones.

It does not have to be the web. But this is currently the best we have.

Feel free to propose a better standard. And like I said: for full performance there are native apps.

For best portability there is the web.

I like choices.

I’m not sure that was an insult. It was just a honest assessment. Everyone cares about themselves. But Apple has to put users before developers.

"but you don't care.

So you put yourself before your users."

Sounds like an insult to me. Selfishness is regarded as a bad trait.

And I actually do care about other people beyond their money. Which is exactly the reason, why I did not decided to tend to the most lucrative market only: apples walled garden.

It came off as pretty insulting. You've also been presenting subjective opinion as objective truth when there are many Apple users and developers that disagree with what you're saying.

A more cynical take is that Apple want their cut of any revenue that goes through iOS and intentionally hamstrings PWAs at the expense of their users to achieve this. Either or neither could be true.

Of course Apple wants their cut, but you know offering services and getting paid is not a dirty thing, is it?

Everyone keeps talking about how they "intentionally hamstring PWAs". They kicked off HTML5, remember? They shipped the first real web browser on a phone, remember?

Now they chose to implement some Google-pioneered APIs selectively to preserve UX, performance and privacy and everyone is up in arms.

As a web developer I never felt Safari lacks something I really need. As an app developer, Swift is possibly the best dev experience I've ever had, next to C#.

All this is about letting people comfortable hacking everything in HTML to make "apps". Well I wish I could contribute to the Linux Kernel with my HTML apps, why not? Why is Linus hamstringing PWAs, ffs. /s

> Of course Apple wants their cut, but you know offering services and getting paid is not a dirty thing, is it?

I'd argue that forcing someone to use your service by preventing others from offering the functionality and handicapping your own implementation is in fact a dirty thing. They get their cut when someone purchases an iPhone.

> Everyone keeps talking about how they "intentionally hamstring PWAs". They kicked off HTML5, remember? They shipped the first real web browser on a phone, remember?

So what? They didn't launch with the app store, and since it was introduced they appear more and more hostile to the changes they helped kick off. According to others in the thread they won't even allow webapps to send notifications, a fairly basic/fundamental feature of mobile phones. Elsewhere people go into further detail on how Safari's storage APIs are released buggy and broken.

> All this is about letting people comfortable hacking everything in HTML to make "apps". Well I wish I could contribute to the Linux Kernel with my HTML apps, why not? Why is Linus hamstringing PWAs, ffs. /s

This is a total mischaracterisation of what people are asking for which is simply to allow applications delivered through a web browser greater parity with native applications.

I work on a b2b web application and being able to store larger amounts of data on the client with user permission would be fantastic for both performance and user convenience.

It would be fantastic for the user. But you can’t be bothered wrapping it in an app. I guess either it’s not fantastic enough, or we’re missing something.

Because you're not simply "wrapping it in an app". You're now paying rent to Apple for the privilege of wrapping your otherwise perfectly functional application in an app.

I'm a user and I want the web to win, not the 100000 walled gardens out there.

The web is the truly only open platform that's still alive.

Android devices are actually quite locked down these days it's just that you CAN shut off security features. For example I can't just download APKs in Firefox and install them without flipping a switch which triggers an explicit warning.