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Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by arp242 on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @01:21AM (#27046483)
"I'm oppressed more so it's okay for me to say horrible things!"

Who wins with this? No one wins, no one has anything to gain. It's just venting and only breeds resentment. People turn this in to a "I'm oppressed more! No I'm oppressed more!" contest. That leads to nothing good. Accepting that racism exists, is bad, and should be addressed _and_ opposing this kind of stuff are not mutually exclusive. I think it's entirely consistent with the values of treating people as individuals.

When all messaging is race-focused and people are constantly antagonizing against a certain group, then don't be surprised if people, especially lesser advantaged ones, will feel left out, and that's not even all that unreasonable.

You don't empower a group of people by kicking at another of people group.

People talk about "white privilege" as if that's somehow a problem. It's not; it's how everyone should be treated. That this doesn't happen is horrible, but I resent this usage of "white privilege" that almost tries to to guilt me for being treated with decency, or is being used to dismiss the very real problems and challenges people of all backgrounds are facing (including white people).

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by MisterBastahrd on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @04:51AM (#27047649)
You tried to play the "treat people as individuals" card, followed it up with the "poor white person is gonna resent you" card, and finished off with the "I want decency" trope.

Congratulations, you hit the white supremacy apologia trifecta.

You could have scored bonus points if you had also included "not all white people" in your reply.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason that we have civil rights movements in the first place is because the state and corporations DO NOT "treat people as individuals?" Maybe you haven't noticed, but this is why people are pissed off in this day and age. It's why they have these discussions, and it's why they aren't willing to just ignore casual racism in the workplace.

Discussing factual information is not "kicking at another group of people." You can have ALL of your feelings hurt for all I care if it means that people aren't getting targeted by cops and harassed by store employees for the crime of being black and existing in society. White folks have been resenting discussing the problem of systemic racism and the role they play in it since Reconstruction. People are done tiptoeing around the issue so you can feel good about yourself and pretend everything is fine.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by dang on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @01:01PM (#27052513)
Whoa, please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar, and please don't attack other users aggressively like this. It only contributes to destroying this place.

You crossed several circles deeper into hell with this comment. We're trying to go the other way, for what should be obvious reasons, and you don't need any of this to make your substantive points. Nor is it in your interests, because it only discredits your argument, which is particularly bad to the extent that your argument is true.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by arp242 on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @07:47AM (#27048716)
Sigh; discussing these things always seems to lead to this. Could you be any more smug, condensing, and patronizing?

But yeah, I'm a racist "white supremacy apologist". Sigh. Do you not realize how massively toxic you're being here? For all your talk about "diversity" and "inclusivity" ya'll seem very quick to exclude people.

> You could have scored bonus points if you had also included "not all white people" in your reply.

Yes, "not all white people" is perfectly valid. Just as "not all men" is, or "not all Muslims are terrorists", or "not all blacks are criminals".

We're on the same damn team for crying out loud, I already said these problems need addressing, repeatedly, we just don't agree on some aspects regarding the best messaging and strategy to solve this problem.

This is like a football match where people keep tackling members of their own team. Maybe it would be better if I just succumb to the "violence" of staying silent if this is what you get if you do try and speak up but don't agree on some comparatively minor aspects. Your comment is certainly a lot more "violent" than any form of silence is.