News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by phendrenad2 on Saturday May 01, 2021 @06:01AM (#27004930)
Thank you. Something just snapped into focus for me. Fizzbuzz always seemed easy to me, because I'm a math nerd, but I just realized that the concept of a "remainder" isn't something people often use in their adult life. Also, the fact that programming languages have any sort of remainder operator might not come up in a typical web dev coding bootcamp or a self-taught programmer's education. Or even a college graduate could easily gloss over the boring math operators, eager to make cool stuff in the worlds of OOP and web dev.

It's sad that Fizzbuzz is used at all. At present, using Fizzbuzz selects for people who either (1) Are math nerds or (2) Are already in the "in group" and possibly read HN. That probably makes a small contribution to the lack of diversity in tech.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by bendbro on Saturday May 01, 2021 @06:34AM (#27005102)
Yes, and a "crankshaft" isn't something universally understood by non-mech-eng's, a "flank" isn't something universally understood by non-mil-scis, and "leverage" isn't universally understood by non-financiers. That doesn't mean there isn't value in expecting new hires to understand those concepts.

Implementing fizzbuzz successfully requires someone to have the most basic understanding of cause and effect, the ability to reason from that understanding, and the ability to reason abstractly. Nearly all forms of programming require that. So yes, fizzbuzz selects people in the "in group"- the in group of people who are actually potential programmers.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by phendrenad2 on Saturday May 01, 2021 @06:47AM (#27005175)
That's another good point, fizzbuzz really tests two things, and people tend to only think of one of them. The first one everyone thinks of is "does the person know how to write a simple if/else expression". But the other thing people need to know is how to do math, and use programming syntax, they haven't thought of in potentially a very long time.

It would be like testing if someone knows about a "crankshaft" in a job where they'll be exclusively working on Teslas.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by oneeyedpigeon on Saturday May 01, 2021 @09:29AM (#27006141)
I think it very much depends on the specific programming job, but I can't think of many roles I've come across where, if I were in charge of programming hires, I'd be happy with somebody who wasn't even aware of the concept of modulo. And I consider myself FAR from a math nerd.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by bendbro on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:10PM (#27009373)
> It would be like testing if someone knows about a "crankshaft" in a job where they'll be exclusively working on Teslas

Yeah completely agree. Not all things people call "programming" are the same. Only jobs that require someone to think in this way should have tests filtering for it

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Cyberdog on Saturday May 01, 2021 @09:18AM (#27006071)
> Also, the fact that programming languages have any sort of remainder operator might not come up in a typical web dev coding bootcamp or a self-taught programmer's education.

That may be true, but as a web dev, I use the modulo quite frequently. Just yesterday I used it to implement some code where the client wanted to insert ads after every sixth paragraph in a page body, but not if there would be two paragraphs or less left on the page after the last ad. I can't imagine what kind of goofy hackneyed solution I would have ended up with if I didn't know about `%`.

Before CSS had :even and :odd pseudoselectors, we also commonly used it to zebra stripe tables.

Web dev isn't typically as math-y as, say, game dev, but I'd encourage anyone getting into it to at least learn the modulo beyond basic algebra stuff.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by phendrenad2 on Saturday May 01, 2021 @10:28AM (#27006589)
I've had to use it too - mostly when faffing about and not using some jQuery builtin. But to say that someone who doesn't know this easily-stackoverflowed ("how do I do something every nth array item") lacks basic programming ability ("why can't programmers program" is I think the original fizzbuzz blog post title) is I think going too far.