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Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by Spooky23 on Friday April 30, 2021 @02:02PM (#26997022)
Be careful.

My dad replaced a defective memory chip on his IBM PC XT.. but the computer cost the equivalent of $12k.

I’d rather throw away a dozen modern laptops than fix one that costs 10x.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by opencl on Friday April 30, 2021 @02:11PM (#26997141)
You can replace the memory and storage on just about every desktop computer today that isn't made by Apple, and a decent fraction of laptops.

They do not cost 10x as much as devices with soldered RAM and SSDs.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by creaturemachine on Friday April 30, 2021 @02:25PM (#26997339)
Your comparison does not work. Replaceable parts didn't make that IBM cost what it did.
Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by Spooky23 on Friday April 30, 2021 @05:02PM (#26999277)
I'm not talking about replacing a memory module. I'm talking about replacing a defective 4Kb memory chip on a $1000+, 384Kb ISA card.

When I built PCs in the late 90s, the BOM included motherboard, cpu, graphics card, sound card, nic, sometimes a parallel port board, memory, hard disk, etc. At this point, it was only really feasible to repair modules that failed, few humans with the skill to replace a component would do so due to the economies of scale and cheap price.

Now, it's motherboard, cpu, memory, disk. The cost is much less, but most repairs are replacements of the mainboard or disk.

For most laptops, there's a tiny motherboard with most of the functionality integrated into a few modules. The only things that get repaired are memory and battery.

For the M1 Macbook, you have one of the highest performance devices on the market selling for $899 at 40-50% margin. I just bought similar Dell and HP units in quantities over 50,000 last fall for $100-150 less (probably 6-8% margin to the OEM), with inferior battery life, disk and cpu.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by michaelmrose on Friday April 30, 2021 @06:20PM (#27000203)
You seem to believe this specific example where you are literally making up the non public profit margin proves that for the entire class of consumer laptops making non serviceable parts greatly decreases the cost. First it was an hyperbolic 10x and now it decreases costs by half. All examples are not only fictional misuse of both real and hypothetical numbers they say nothing much about the entire class of things.

The M1 is a fresh design on a new iteration of an arch by very smart people and its likely that there are far more factors at play than presence or absence of sockets in terms of determining profitability.

What we are trying to do is determine all things being equal how much cheaper can the same machine be with and without replaceable parts. I don't have any numbers either but I strong doubt its 2-10x cheaper.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by scientismer on Friday April 30, 2021 @02:49PM (#26997640)
Yes it did. Computers became cheaper because more and more functionality can simply be combined on single chips. You can not replace parts of broken chips at home.

Look into Apple's M1.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by michaelmrose on Friday April 30, 2021 @06:25PM (#27000253)
Average spend on a computer hasn't gone down recently. In the era when it actually did go down it was because volume and reliability went up, and cost of manufacturing went down as process improved.

Phones have been system on a chip since the dawn of the era of the smartphone and few computers are. The difference between repairable and not is the difference between glue and screws and sockets vs solder. You have basically misunderstood everything.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by scientismer on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:15PM (#27000787)
Average spend has of course gone down - you can get the same computer you would have gotten 10 years ago for a lot cheaper now.

Computers have gotten a lot faster, that is why "spend" has kept up.

And you seem to suggest that early smartphones were already as fast as an M1, because they were "systems on a chip". That is not the case. Not all SoCs are the same, more and more things have been integrated over time.

And sockets take up space, making for thicker smartphones. People don't actually want that.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by michaelmrose on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:12PM (#27001863)
You said computers not phones. More power for less money is massively overwhelmingly driven by being able to fit more transistors in the same size wafer due to modern processes not integration as you suggest.

>And you seem to suggest that early smartphones were already as fast as an M1, because they were "systems on a chip"

I never suggested anything of the sort. My point is that smartphones have always been integrated and computers have usually been more discrete. You said the drop in price or increase in value for money has to do with integration. This doesn't appear to be correct because computers have been party to this without largely being integrated in the fashion you suggest.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by scientismer on Saturday May 01, 2021 @03:59AM (#27004306)
You brought up smartphones for comparison.

The M1 is so fast and efficient because it combines even more stuff on a single chip.

Re:It's your device, you should be able to repair it by markdeloura on Friday April 30, 2021 @02:42PM (#26997553)
I'd rather repair it myself, or be able to take it to someone local with particular expertise. What's important is that we have a choice!