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Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by mikeryan on Monday April 26, 2021 @08:50PM (#26950349)
TV manufacturers have mostly chosen to create and maintain their own ecosystems.

This is actually a declining trend. LG and Samsung do but Moore's law has gotten it to a point where Android TV and, in fact Roku's platform are becoming much more prevalent on TVs, particularly some of the newer lower end devices. There's a large cost to maintaining your own HTML based platform (which is what most 3rd parties are) and the HTML platforms pretty radically under-perform these days.

Android TV could win but much like the US cable operators the large CE providers aren't too excited about getting so closely tied to Google. Roku's continued independence is cool in a space where there is so much consolidation, and attractive to some CE manufacturers.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by nvrspyx on Monday April 26, 2021 @11:28PM (#26951655)
My TV has Roku built-in and it’s extremely frustrating. It’s super slow, it uses some surround sound virtualization (or something) for the stereo speakers with no option to turn it off despite being terrible (you can barely hear speech, but music and effects are extremely loud), the remote has shortcut buttons for things I don’t even use (google play and sling), there’s advertisements every time I turn on my tv and on the screensaver, the TV options are inaccessible in half the apps I use, etc.

Despite how much I dislike Google, I’ve resorted to using a Chromecast because it’s quicker, less of a hassle, and gives me the option of forcing stereo audio instead of the faux surround sound. I can also use JustWatch on my phone, tap the service that a movie/show is on, and directly open the corresponding app to cast from. It’s also nice being able to type directly on my phone instead of using the Roku remote, especially since many of the available Roku apps don’t support keyboard input from the mobile Roku remote app. Finally, I like that I can cast directly from my computer as well.

I also have an Apple TV, but its touchpad remote is annoying and it provides less value for me since I’ve moved away from Macs.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by wccrawford on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @06:50AM (#26954259)
I've had TVs with Android, LG's OS, Samsung's OS, etc... They all suck.

I currently have a really nice Sony with Android TV, but I had so many problems with the built-in Android that I plugged an nVidia Shield box into it instead and all those problems went away.

The other OS's all had their own issues, but the worst part of them was, like your Roku, the slowness. Everything is massively underpowered. Nobody wants to wait for the TV to slowly load apps when they want to be watching something.

In addition, other than Android, all of them tend to lag behind on updates after the initial launch of the each app.

So now I ignore whatever is on the TV and use an external box. I've considered FireTV and Roku again, but every time I look into them, I read about problems that I don't want to have (like this article) and so I stick with nVidia Shield boxes.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by stinos on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @07:22AM (#26954459)
I plugged an nVidia Shield box into it instead and all those problems went away.

Can confirm. I tried a bunch of different things (even the OUYA), went to support smaller companies (Wetek) but it was all one big mess and impossible to have a couple of days pass by without a crash of either the viewer programs or just the complete OS getting stucked. I feel sorry for them, but really this thing should be like a plain analog TV which worked (in my area) fine every single day for decades. The Shield does this for me. Think I had one crash of the local TV streaming app in the past months, for the rest it has been working flawlessly for years and didn't even have to replace the remote's batteries yet. That is how such dedicated hardware should just work.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by jhallenworld on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @09:20AM (#26955439)
The last two AirBNBs had new TV with Roku built into the TV. I have to say they worked fairly well.. a little slow, but not bad at all.

I have a Roku at home, but also an nVidia Shield. The Shield is fast, but it has a lot of problems. First is that you must install an app to disable the Netflix button. If you enter Netflix, it does not easily let you leave the app and the button makes it far to easy to accidentally enter it. Second, the YouTube app on the shield has a weird problem where it goes into some kind of stagger mode where it updates the screen only every few seconds (maybe it gets into this mode if the bandwidth is temporarily too low). You need to rewind the video to get it to play again properly. Finally the triangular remote is terrible- it's falling apart.

Roku has none of these problems. I should say I have the older RF Roku remote, not the newer cheap LED one.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by CarlosEscobedo on Wednesday April 28, 2021 @02:24PM (#26972444)
when you are in netflix, you just click the home button and its exits.
Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by ameen on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @03:06AM (#26952946)
Chromecast video quality is atrocious though. I have a Chromecast Ultra on my Roku TV (TCL 6-series QLED) considered to be a mid-range panel and has decent color accuracy, but on Chromecast all of it is out the window, the same video on the YouTube TV (native app) on Roku is so much better looking and accurate.

Not sure who’s to blame here.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by nvrspyx on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @03:34AM (#26953115)
That's interesting because what I forgot to mention is that while I have a 4K TV, it seems that the Roku apps refuse to play anything at a 4K resolution. The Chromecast Ultra seems to output 4K just fine.

I haven't noticed any differences in color though, so I can't speak to that. Maybe the HDMI input has different picture settings set than the base Roku? I'm sure you've tried that though, so I don't know.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by disillusioned on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @05:52AM (#26953908)
Huh, that... just doesn't jive with my experience at all, though I have a newer LG OLED TV. My Chromecast is able to play 4K UHD/HDR content perfectly.

That being said, when I first use a new input on my TV, I sometimes forget that each input has its own profile on my TV, and have to shut off the stupid smooth motion modes and adjust colors, etc. Are you sure this isn't the case on your TV?

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by rkudeshi on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @06:20AM (#26954085)
My budget Vizio TV advertised HDR support, but it turned out to only be on two of the three HDMI inputs.

Maybe try swapping the inputs and see if that makes a difference?

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by katbyte on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @04:01AM (#26953266)
Getting devices and tvs to play nice can be a pain for any given set - I don’t have a roku but comparing builtin YouTube/Netflix on a 4K hdr Sony oled with chrome cast and Apple TV they were all about the same with built in performing the best (optimized for the tv I presume) - apple tv with infuse using Emby as a library was best

Chrome cast is also greatly affected by what your casting with, VLC, Videostream, chrome can all produce very different results depending on the content

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by Mindwipe on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @05:24AM (#26953740)
Hard to tell (probably both), but it's worth noting for most of these OSes (at least Roku or Android TV) the playback is generally being handed to the hardware native decoder rather than having anything to do with the OS.

Indeed, one of the nice things about Android TV is that from a content protection point of view you don't really need to trust the OS at all as it's all abstracted down to the hardware.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by mschuster91 on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @07:00AM (#26954318)
It's probably not Roku that's at fault for the slowness, but rather the TV manufacturer cutting corners at the CPU/RAM. (Yet another case why there should be a modular standard for "smart TV" brains)
Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by etempleton on Monday April 26, 2021 @10:34PM (#26951272)
AppleTV, AndroidTV, FireTV, Roku, WebOS, Tizen, Comcast X1, ATT TV, Xbox, PlayStation, etc—the space is incredibly fractured.

Outside of the TVs with Roku built in I wonder how many people will buy Roku devices in the future. It will be hard for Roku to continue to compete if they have say, 10-20 percent market share.

I use a Roku now, but I don’t think I will in the future. My tv is older, so no built in apps. Roku was a cheap way to add that functionality without a big box. With that said, I am regularly disappointed with the performance of Roku especially with Plex. I am considering an Apple TV because I know IOS devices work well with Plex and there is a more robust app ecosystem available.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by bmlzootown on Monday April 26, 2021 @11:55PM (#26951832)
Not to even mention that Brightscript, the proprietary language running the device, can be a nightmare at times. I've encountered so many quirks/issues that just don't exist/happen on other platforms like AndroidTV/tvOS.

The entire smart-tv space is definitely fractured, and trying to develop for so many platforms all at once can be frustrating, especially when you're doing so in your spare time. Thankfully, at least in my case, I've had someone more experienced step in recently to help with a side-project on AndroidTV, but I digress.

Honestly, if I had a dongle for my Chromecast that supported ethernet, and I weren't too lazy to order one, I wouldn't really use the Roku anymore. With the removal of the Twitch channel, Spectrum channel, and others, I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with the platform.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by Crespyl on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @01:27AM (#26952364)
I was also disappointed when the Twitch and Reuters channels were dropped.

Fortunately there's an unofficial "uncertified" third party channel you can add to get back basic Twitch support: https://www.fanbyte.com/guides/how-to-watch-twitch-on-roku-d...

I haven't found anything similar for Reuters, so I just have their YouTube feed now, but I still miss the nicely packaged 15-30 minute segments.

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by ameen on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @03:08AM (#26952961)
Chromecast Ultra has an Ethernet port. But the color accuracy is off and the video quality (atleast on Chromecast YouTube) seems poorer (overblown highlights, inaccurate colors, etc) vs Native YouTube app on Roku.
Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by Mindwipe on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @05:33AM (#26953790)
Roku is also going to have problems with their marketshare being so North America focused when platforms increasingly need their stack to either work internationally or at least be trivially repurposed for international. Globally Roku's marketshare is nowhere near 10 - 20%.
Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by bthazos on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @02:09PM (#26959375)
The Roku's inability to display non-latin characters is what soured my enthusiasm for them. If it turns out that it's a trivial problem that is easily addressed once it's time to target international growth I will become bitter.
Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by BikiniPrince on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @04:12AM (#26953341)
It’s too bad Android Tv application quality is atrocious. Applications like Hulu have huge swaths of the library that simply won’t play and it crashes. Couple this with a lack of application support and it is quite disappointing. The pled support was the last straw which led me to attach a roku to the television.
Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @04:53AM (#26953586)
In my experience, poor/incomplete applications are something you have to keep an eye out for regardless of what platform you're dealing with.

I've seen audio stutter on a smart TV running the Netflix streaming app, and similar stutter on a network-enabled Blu-Ray player running the Amazon Video streaming app. I've seen 4K playback cause occasional stuttering in the Amazon Video app on a smart TV. Disney+ group playback is currently unsupported on PS4, but is supported on Xbox One. A few years ago, the PS3 Netflix app supported 1080p, whereas the Xbox 360 Netflix app only supported 720p. I've also seen the Xbox One YouTube app insist on playing a video at 720p or lower, despite that Roku will play it at 1080p (perhaps an issue with only a certain codec being available at that quality?). I've seen a paid video service with an iPhone app with completely broken Chromecast support (they fixed it a few weeks after I filed a bug report).

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by vagrantJin on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @04:35AM (#26953482)
> There's a large cost to maintaining your own HTML based platform (which is what most 3rd parties are) and the HTML platforms pretty radically under-perform these days.

I'm struggling to understand the claim made by this statement. Maybe I missed something? What does HTML have to do with serving video over the wire? Underperforming on which metrics? What's the time value of "these days"?

Re:Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made an... by Mindwipe on Tuesday April 27, 2021 @05:21AM (#26953731)
Most smart TV platforms that aren't Android TV or Tizen explicitly are HTML5 based, in that their UI is HTML5 based. But smart TV platforms are never write once run anywhere - remote control button patterns, OS weirdness and shoestring amounts of RAM mean you've got to do whole suites of testing and bespoke code for at best every manufacturer, and in practice every set.

LG is the only one that could be said to have sufficient marketshare to justify that investment for any but the largest VOD providers now. The revenue generated from those platforms once rights holders are paid is a fraction of what it costs to maintain them simply through testing overhead. Android TV and Tizen's marketshare has increased rapidly over the last few (read three-ish) years, and when you often need to account for international rollout or repurposing in your cost analysis it's even stronger (Roku has zero marketshare outside of the US, many large cable companies outside of the US have Android TV based set-top boxes with multiple million installations).

This generally also applies to browser based streaming, with the added bonus that is where a bunch of piracy comes from.