Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by aerophilic on Thursday April 22, 2021 @12:54PM
(#26904982)
Just a note on this: you can’t “increase” the power output of these things. Basically you can imagine these power sources as a “heat pack” that lasts a very long time. So, while you can “store” the energy, and release it later... you can not “use it faster”.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by ilyagr on Thursday April 22, 2021 @01:31PM
(#26905434)
As it produces 100W of electricity, the RTG also produces way more energy as heat. According to Wikipedia, the efficiency of an RTG is usually around 3% to 7%, so you get kilowatts of heat.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_...
So, it's same order of magnitude to my electric space-heater, if it was stuck to "on". I trust Andy Weir's calculations on whether it is about right to keep a botanist warm on Mars.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by fiftyfifty on Thursday April 22, 2021 @01:50PM
(#26905669)
Couldn't you use something like a Stirling engine to create more electricity from the excess heat? You might have to have an external radiator to create a heat gradient with a closed loop of liquid but it certainly seems possible.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by LeifCarrotson on Thursday April 22, 2021 @02:54PM
(#26906646)
Yes, you could, and you could do better with more moving parts and more stages, but they're optimizing for reliability not for power.
In theory, the best you could do is (T_hot - T_cold) / T_hot, or (430 - 210) / 430 ~= 50% , using some approximate values for fin root temperature and Martian climate. To exceed 10% of the theoretical optimum with something that contains no moving parts is pretty impressive, IMO.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by fiftyfifty on Thursday April 22, 2021 @04:01PM
(#26907471)
Couldn't they use the heat to to drive the wheels directly, maybe they could go to more of a hybrid drive? Just seems like such a waste to produce that much heat for 15 years.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by simonh on Thursday April 22, 2021 @06:23PM
(#26908877)
I'm not sure how heat would turn wheels directly. You need to convert the heat into either mechanical or electrical energy somehow. Any such system involves tradeoffs in efficiency (in terms of useful energy captured) against weight and reliability.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by XorNot on Friday April 23, 2021 @12:22AM
(#26910968)
Specifically you wind up needing grease/oil more moving parts. The failure rates of reaction wheels on orbital craft speak well to the relative difficulty of keeping moving parts moving in space-environments without ongoing maintenance.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by Daniel_sk on Thursday April 22, 2021 @04:20PM
(#26907674)
AFAIK NASA is already experimenting with Stirling engines + Plutonium for future missions. It’s called ASRG https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Stirling_radioisoto...
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by jgeada on Thursday April 22, 2021 @02:19PM
(#26906067)
well, unless you bring a number of the inner contents of several such packs into very close proximity, at which point the reaction is going to be very much accelerated.
Warranty probably not valid if you get anywhere near criticality ;-)
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by caf on Thursday April 22, 2021 @09:15PM
(#26910028)
Wrong isotope. The Pu238 used in RTGs is not fissile (does not undergo a chain reaction) - it decays by alpha decay. The fissile isotope used in weapons is Pu239.
Re:Mars Helicopter successfully completed its second flight
by LunarRover on Thursday April 22, 2021 @02:52PM
(#26906608)
Just don't recreate the Demon Core... they're both plutonium, right?
Or provide enough heat to keep a stranded botanist warm for a brief cross country drive.