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Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by wpietri on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @09:28AM (#26874343)
I get why people want machine-aided composition. But I'd love to see a project like this go in the opposite direction.

Maybe put a row of buttons at the top: "I am [Loving it] [Grooving] [Fine] [A Bit Bored] [About to Quit]". Then use that (plus browser data and window-close data) to train ML models to maximize engagement. Or perhaps to hook it up to facial expression recognition.

When I watch friends DJ, there's this great feedback loop between how the crowd's behaving and what they're putting on. They're clearly using the music to achieve certain mental states among listeners. I'd love to see how well that can be done algorithmically.

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by jmfldn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @11:50AM (#26876278)
That would be a fun project for sure!

So many of the selections that great DJs make are curveballs and surprising choices. This is less true in more samey genres, but true pioneering selectors will tend to surprise you with their taste and juxtapositions in a way that's hard or maybe even impossible to really capture in an algorithm.

Put another way, even in something as simple a song selection, the weirdness and contingencies in human creative decision making is a feature not a bug.

The efficiency and cleverness of algorithms can create create great powerful recommendation engines but there's nothing like the idiosyncrasies of a person as a curator.

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by Digit-Al on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:50PM (#26878039)
I'm not entirely convinced by your argument. Some years ago there was an episode of the Gadget Show where they were testing an app for suggesting food ideas. I can't remember how it was supposed to work, it was too long ago, but it was something to do with having profiles of different food types programmed into it and then it used some sort of algorithm to compare taste profiles and come up with combinations that should work.

The combination it came up with that they then tried selling on a food stall was chocolate on pizza. It wasn't to everybody's taste but some liked it, with one describing it as "weirdly delicious".

It doesn't seem completely ridiculous that if an AI could be trained to recognise patterns of music that worked well together that it could analyse a large corpus of recorded music and come up with surprising mixes that you wouldn't think would work, but do.

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by jmfldn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:16PM (#26879912)
I don't doubt it's possible to come out of leftfield for an AI DJ but I still wonder if it could be a tastemaker like a great DJ. I don't just want great individual mixes, I want consistent, surprising yet tasteful selections that define an idiosyncratic style.
Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by teachingassist on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @09:31AM (#26889420)
Chocolate on pizza doesn't seem very novel.

Many restaurant chains sell chocolate on their pizza base as a dessert; chocolate is also known to complement many savoury dishes as a 'secret ingredient'.

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by vidarh on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:14PM (#26892510)
There's a restaurant in London that incorporates cacao in some form or other in every dish. It's a bit of a gimmick in that in a lot of them it's not really noticeable, or just used very sparingly. It's probably easier to do with the constraint of "some form of cacao" than chocolate, though.
Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by wpietri on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:53PM (#26877231)
For sure! I'll always appreciate the deeper stuff that only humans can do. I just think it would be interesting to see how much of it we could automate. E.g., could it get to the level of decent background music?

Of course, there's always the possibility algorithmic composers could do even better than humans. Clarke told a story about that in 1957: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Melody

Text here: https://archive.org/details/1957-02_IF/page/n71/mode/2up?vie...

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by Applejinx on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:11PM (#26877448)
Put a camera on the crowd, and motion-track the bouncing of heads. That'll give you two banger metrics: one, how far they're all bouncing/jumping/nodding, and two, how consistently they are.

That would be enough to construct a robot DJ that could track the variations it was making, and rate them for 'better/worse'. Then you just make a cool-looking puppet to store the camera in, that can move around and possibly wave an actuator like a proper DJ, and the rest is machine learning.

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by brokenmachine on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:43AM (#26885494)
The loudness war has ended, prepare yourself for the bobbing war.

There was an interesting youtube video I watched, "All my homies hate Skrillex" that said that the evolution of agressive Skrillex-style "dubstep" over the older, more introspective dubstep was a result of smoking being banned indoors in UK clubs.

This made the smokers have to leave every now and then, which forced the DJs to have to play more agressive, instantly impactful music to draw their attention when they returned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hLlVVKRwk0

I guess the video maker knows what he's talking about, he's the one who was at the clubs and clearly has great knowledge about the genre.

He said that he didn't care either way about the smoke, but personally I'd be much more likely to stay in a club with clear air than one filled with horrible smoke.

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by hutzlibu on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:48AM (#26888929)
I love clubs, but hate it when I smell like a ash tray afterwards, despite not smoking.

Another theory about the changing for more aggressive beats: maybe the dj's themself were affected and got angry having to wait for their next cigarette?

Re:The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid ... by mikepurvis on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @11:36AM (#26876056)
I wonder if you could do the feedback mechanism in a more subtle way, for example by pairing the musical composition component to an interactive activity like playing an action game, where movements and so on in the game trigger a response in the music.

There are lots of games that do this kind of thing at a rhythm level, like Necrodancer and more recently BPM [1], but I think there'd be the potential to do a lot more with it than just rewarding beat-alignment with a pre-cooked solo that blazes over top of the base track.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V684o6wBaSQ