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Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway189262 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:54AM (#26873368)
What??? Germany had already surrendered, Japan was the only major Axis power left.

They used the bomb immediately after it was built. There was a single test, Trinity, then the next bomb went to Japan. How could they choose Japan years in advance when they used the bomb the second it came off the assembly line???

The US nuked Japan because a land invasion was projected to kill millions on both sides. Because Japan is mountainous and its people were prepared to fight till the bitter end, which was proven by the number of kamikaze attacks.

The US wanted the war to end quickly without losing a lot of their troops. The Japanese Emperor had to be convinced the war was unwinnable. The Atom bomb was the easiest way to do that. The US also avoided bombing Kyoto to preserve Japanese cultural heritage. If they wanted to to do maximum damage, they could have done worse.

It should be remembered that it was Japan that attacked the United States, which was at the time a neutral power. They, like Germany, brought the war and destruction upon themselves.

Somehow you twist a war that was started by Japan into "The US is racist". As an American, I find that incredibly offensive.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by krapp on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:47AM (#26872590)
No. The atomic bombs were intended to be used against Germany as well, but the Nazis surrendered before a working bomb could be deployed. The US chose Japan because they were at war with Japan and Okinawa proved just how costly an invasion would be.

Not that the US wasn't, and isn't, still virulently racist against Asians in many ways, but we didn't undertake the entire Manhattan Project because of racism or just to show up Stalin, that's absurd.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway4good on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:17AM (#26872773)
The last bit is a bit of a straw man isn't it?

You can study the initiation of the Manhattan project if you will. But once the bomb was built, it had to be used. And America at that point was already planning for the world after it had defeated the Axis powers and that is where the dark racist geopolitcs comes in.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by krapp on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:48AM (#26872936)
> The last bit is a bit of a straw man isn't it?

It's a repudiation of the premise that "They (the US) chose Japan because its people were not white." Had the war in the Pacific ended first, the US would have dropped the bombs on Germany. Simplistic reductionist arguments like that only risk turning what could be interesting discussions into race-baiting flamewars.

As far as dropping the bombs as a display of power to Stalin goes, it's a conspiracy theory without hard evidence. I'm sure the US was aware of the wider geopolitical context of what they were doing, but if all they wanted was to show Stalin they had a working bomb, they could have dropped one on Alaska or anywhere. The US' primary concern at the time was ending the war.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway4good on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:55AM (#26872979)
My source for this is documentation on display in the Hiroshima museum. Make of it what you will. PS: I don't judge the US for being racist - everyone was racist by today's standard anno 1944.
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by resoluteteeth on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:57AM (#26873390)
> My source for this is documentation on display in the Hiroshima museum. Make of it what you will. PS: I don't judge the US for being racist - everyone was racist by today's standard anno 1944.

There's probably an actual argument to be made for it being motivated by racism but what you have posted here is not doing much for the case.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by thehappypm on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @09:24AM (#26874277)
Just admit you're wrong here. The USA did not nuke Japan out of racism. It nuked Japan because they were the only enemy left.
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway4good on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @09:40AM (#26874506)
https://ieer.org/resource/commentary/always-the-target/

“Always” the target?: While U.S. bomb scientists were racing against Germany, military planners were looking toward the Pacific

By Arjun Makhijani

As for racism; well it was a different time. But look at the vilification of the Japanese and the American internment camps during the war. Plus the subsequent wars in Korea and Vietnam.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by kryogen1c on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:09PM (#26876580)
everything you have said doesnt prove racism is a factor, much less the primary motivator. youre either using "racism" with a definition that makes it meaningless or using it incorrectly.

the japenese killed americans in a surprise attack while US was not involved in the war. civillians were sacrificing to support the war effort. its not some mystery why the US would be eager to bomb japan and end the war. similarly, the japenese internment camps in the US were hardly inexplicable. when youre at war with people X, its reasonable to be at war with ALL people X, not just the ones in uniform. spycraft is a thing, and people often bear allegiance to their homelands. there are subtle types of sabotage that any enemy can perform.

you have to prove the US wanted to kill the japanese becuase of their race, instead of the much more obvious and well-supported claim that US wanted to get revenge and end the war in the same blow.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway4good on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:58PM (#26878192)
I consider it a historical fact that the choice of Japan for the nuclear attack was made in 1943. It changes from primary a military target (harbor of Truk) to a list of 4 cities where the casualties would be mostly civilian later. The expectation of tens of thousands of civilian casulties is documented by the target commitee.

On the racial undertones, I am not the only who sees them - this is from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_the...

Strategic bombing of Japan

Author John M. Curatola wrote that the anti-Japanese sentiment probably played a role in the strategic bombing of Japanese cities,[22] which began on March 9/10, 1945 with the destructive Operation Meetinghouse firebombing of Tokyo to August 15, 1945, with the surrender of Japan.[23] Sixty-nine cities in Japan lost significant areas and hundreds of thousands of civilian lives to firebombing and nuclear attacks from United States Army Air Forces B-29 Superfortress bombers during this period.[24] According to Curatola and historian James J. Weingartner, both firebombing and nuclear attacks were partially the result of a dehumanization of the enemy,[22] with the latter saying, "[T]he widespread image of the Japanese as sub-human constituted an emotional context which provided another justification for decisions which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands" across Japan.[25] On the second day after the Nagasaki bomb, President Harry S. Truman stated: "The only language they seem to understand is the one we have been using to bombard them. When you have to deal with a beast you have to treat him like a beast. It is most regrettable but nevertheless true".[10][26]

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by jdmoreira on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:07AM (#26872721)
I don’t know how much you know about the atrocities the Japanese inflicted on everyone during WWII but things were much more civilized on the western front and you were dealing with the Nazis and Hitler there. The Japanese were absolute insane and completely fanatics committing unspeakable atrocities. Soldiers that fought the Japanese were absolutely destroyed for life and the Chinese were just one of the asian people suffering all kinds atrocities at their hands.

Japan was already defeated when those bombs were dropped but they were seriously planning to fight to the last man/woman/child. There were plans by the state of mass suicide if they failed.

Now you may think dropping 2 nukes on them is an atrocity of the worst kind by the white man but consider you don’t know as much as the people making the decision.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by jdmoreira on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:10AM (#26872741)
I can recommend listening to Dan Carlin's Supernova in the East episodes
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by prepend on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @09:36AM (#26874455)
I second that. It’s pretty fascinating. The story of the Japanese campaign on Singapore and the Malay peninsula is pretty wild for the atrocities by the Japanese.
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway4good on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:08AM (#26873062)
There is a lot of Hollywood thinking in the American understanding of the second world war. That America somehow won the war because they were good and had god on their side.

However everyone goes into war thinking they have god on their side. Reality is that wars are won by having resources and being nasty.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by wildermuthn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @10:42AM (#26875346)
Actually, the military teaches its soldiers and officers that war is won by making the other side surrender, not by being nasty. The greatest victory is one where they surrender without a single battle being waged (pretty sure that’s in the Art of War).

To that point, the enemy will only surrender if they know you will accept their surrender and treat them decently rather than torturing and/or killing them. War-crimes make it harder to win wars by convincing the enemy they have nothing to lose,

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway4good on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:52PM (#26877227)
It's just reading about the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden or the nuclear attacks on Hiroshimi and Nagasaki gives a kind of different vibe ...
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by Juliate on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:57AM (#26872651)
Related read: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2020/06/09/what-journalists-s...

(from other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26867366)

As always, it's quite more a complex factor of several events than a simple story line.

Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by tester34 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:42AM (#26872560)
hi, where can we read about it?
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by ggm on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:49AM (#26872612)
Richard Rhodes "the making of the atomic bomb"
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by throwaway4good on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:53AM (#26872634)
You can go to the museums in Hiroshima and Nagasaki - they tell the story in painful detail.
Re:The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan Stalin Did (2013) by ngcc_hk on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @09:09AM (#26874082)
How about all those death in other Asian countries or those potential death of Japanese and Americans. Any museum ...