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Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by refenestrator on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:42PM (#26798022)
There's no indication that Iran is any less deterrable than every other nuclear power.

We didn't start WWIII when Kruschev banged his shoe at the UN like a maniac, it would also be a bad idea to do it over Iran's posturing.

The US killed their national hero last year and we got a measured, proportionate response rather than lighting Iraq on fire.

Trying to pre-emptively "bomb Iran into the stone age" would not only be barbaric, it would result in a hail of scuds hitting Tel Aviv. You don't want that.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by jariel on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:58PM (#26798273)
A 'hail of scuds' would be temporary and mild in comparison to a 'real' nuclear threat from Iran.

Of course - nobody has any intention of actually dropping nukes on anyone.

It's about power and leverage, and Iran's ability to project their dominance towards destabilizing and overthrowing House of Saud, and maybe disrupting/overthrowing Israel some day as well.

Since House of Saud actually has nukes (they paid for Pakistani program so that 'in a time of need' nukes will magically appear in their arsenal) all of this is bad for everyone.

In the 'balance of power' it actually makes a tiny bit of sense that 'small actor surrounded by 10 enemies', Israel, has 'secret nukes' because from a strategic perspective, it would be suicidal for them to use in anything other than an existential scenario of defence. If they were not building homes in Occupied Territories, I think more people would probably more readily acknowledge their defensive requirements. Also of course the fact that most people alive today don't have living memory of the many times Israel was invaded/fought wars with direct neighbours, many times bigger than it, and the outcomes were never going to be clear.

It would be better for everyone if Iran just gave up it's nuclear ambitions - there is zero chance anyone is going to invade them, they could join the rest of the world and start using their Oil dollars to buy plastic junk from China and software from the US, and physical gear from Germany - just like the rest of us - their people can be much wealthier, and we could all get along.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by whimsicalism on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:08PM (#26798453)
I think granting a "right of return" based on what ethnic group you happen to be a part of is bullshit and out of step with the modern world.

Definitely would improve their international stature if they stopped occupying, but they are still a state organized around an ethnic group.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by CivBase on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:51PM (#26799818)
EDIT: Ignore this post. I misunderstood OP. The rest of this is just here to preserve what I originally wrote.

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Serious question: at what point is it no longer rational to return land wrongfully taken? To displace millions of people and remove their right to self-govern? Practically every nation in existence came to be by taking land from someone at some point.

I agree that the "right of return" thing was BS. But it happened. I think the best course of action now is figure out how to move forward without wronging even more people.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by whimsicalism on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @05:55PM (#26799850)
Okay, but Israel still has a right of return. Should that right not be granted to displaced Palestinians? Laws making it more difficult for people of Arab descent to get citizenship were passed in 2003.

This is not about long-ago occurences, this is about active steps Israel is taking now to maintain their status as an ethnostate.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by CivBase on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @06:02PM (#26799918)
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were referencing.
Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by wefarrell on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:13PM (#26798564)
First we feared the godless communists having the bomb because they were not held to a higher moral authority.

Now we fear the theocratic muslims because their fanaticism is stronger than their sense of self preservation.

It turns out this is all propaganda, no state is keen on destroying the world, and it's entirely rational for a country under constant threat like Iran (or Israel) to want nuclear weapons.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by CivBase on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:25PM (#26798766)
> it's entirely rational for a country under constant threat like Iran (or Israel) to want nuclear weapons.

No, it's really not. It's akin to citizens wanting to walk around with ARs in case they need to defend themselves. No, worse, because at least an AR wont annihilate everyone around you after you're already dead.

The value in having nuclear weapons is the threat that you could spitefully take your opponents out with you. The danger in having nuclear weapons is that some day it could actually happen.

Mutually assured destruction is not a deterrent. It's an eventuality - one which we should be vigilantly protecting against.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by mijamo on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:34PM (#26798881)
Libya wanted nukes. They were convinced not to. Now see where they are and compare with North Korea. This is why Iran wants nukes and it is very logical.
Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by CivBase on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:50PM (#26799102)
I'm not convinced every country without nukes is destined to end up like Libya. World politics are a bit more complicated than that.
Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by throwawayboise on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:02PM (#26798357)
> There's no indication that Iran is any less deterrable than every other nuclear power.

Unlike other nuclear states, Iran is governed by religious zealots.

Re:Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by c... by craigsmansion on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @04:29PM (#26798818)
> Iran is governed by religious zealots.

In that case their highest religious authority has issued a fatwa against weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, and since they're religious zealots they would honour that fatwa.

So they're either very religious, and should pose no danger because of that, or they're not very religious, in which case they would pose no danger.