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Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by wongarsu on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:32AM (#26776822)
> people are free not to do business with them

People aren't free not to do business with people they have contracts with. That's one of the major reasons to sign a contract.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by rjzzleep on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:50AM (#26776917)
In Germany this is actually illegal. It's so illegal that it makes online business a bit more complicated. Because you can't change an online agreement unless the client agrees.
Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by mola on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:55AM (#26776944)
It's sad that it's not taken for granted that you can't change and agreement unilaterally. This "online economy" muddied the water enough so that basic terms like "agreement" lost their meaning. If we don't push back against this, we're heading to a world where servitude is taken for granted.
Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by rjzzleep on Monday April 12, 2021 @05:13AM (#26777352)
It's actually one of the things that constantly amazes me about other online businesses.

I'm still struggling with the fact that google wants to move my contract out of germany since I haven't been back since covid started. It refers to a section in the user agreement to object to it that I have not found.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by xiphias2 on Monday April 12, 2021 @07:48AM (#26778302)
It’s quite the opposite, online business in the EU is so much simpler, that I sign the contract and pay for the product online even if I go to the shop to take delivery of the product (and then have 14 days to return it). I guess ,,complicated’’ just depends on the viewpoint.
Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by mytailorisrich on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:59AM (#26776973)
This is of course not specific to Germany, but the basis of contract law pretty much the world over.
Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by waheoo on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:57AM (#26776958)
The way it should be.

They should really legislate against the validity of these term change at whim.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by conistonwater on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:45AM (#26776893)
The quote in the article clearly says they can get their deposit back in full, if I understood correctly. Not everything that's wrong is illegal.

> You will receive an email in the next 1-2 days when your new agreement is ready for your review and acceptance before moving forward. If you are no longer interested in moving forward with Solar Roof, you can cancel your order by logging into your Tesla Account and your deposit will automatically be refunded.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by Afforess on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:47AM (#26776909)
Breach of contract settlements are typically far more than the initial outlay. That's the whole purpose of contracts, agreeing on a future outcome in advance.
Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by birdyrooster on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:53AM (#26776939)
Something something expectation damages
Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by loceng on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:25AM (#26777102)
I'm genuinely curious what damages would occur in the US in situation like this? I don't imagine there will be much of a direct hit to Tesla, mostly as I imagine the solar panel contracts aren't stating specific dates of completion; image wise and indirect financial cost, Tesla may not suffer much either from this bad behaviour mostly as they're optimizing for scale and seemingly being cutthroat for their own efficiency.

Afaik you have to have proof of damages, and I know in Canada at least you basically get nothing for emotional distress that may be caused - and in the US from what I know, mental pain and suffering can be a significant part of a settlement or ruling.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by toss1 on Monday April 12, 2021 @09:16AM (#26779051)
IANAL, but I believe the term is "detrimental reliance".

You relied on the representation of the other party that they agreed to X(written contract or not, written is easier to rove, but not essential), and then took actions based on the expectation of X.

Costs might include hard materials & labor costs for preparing the site, your labor in preparing the site, lost income for time you spent, opportunity costs of not taking advantage of other opportunities (e.g., how much electricity costs you incurred by not putting in other panels instead of their contract), and emotional distress.

The problem is going to be proving each and every one of those charges in court, in the face of both legitimate and bullsh*t arguments by Tesla's lawyers - and they will bring both types of arguments by the truckload.

What Tesla is counting on is that it will almost always cost more to pursue the lawsuit than you will recover, so no one will step up and sue. They have scale, you don't.

This is why class action lawsuits exist - so that all similarly situated plaintiffs can combine their actions into one, and pursue it with one firm. It would not surprise me that someone at a class-action firm is already examining these reports, taking notes, and making calls. Similarly, anyone with this problem should be contacting class action firms this morning.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by pc86 on Monday April 12, 2021 @10:07AM (#26779608)
You're going to have a hard time proving any modicum of emotional distress because Tesla raised the price of your luxury solar panel roof and charger for your Tesla from $77k to $90k.
Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by joyeuse6701 on Monday April 12, 2021 @11:43AM (#26780683)
House renovations can be incredibly stressful, which this may qualify.

As mentioned in the article, at least one individual spent thousands in preparation for his roof.

The time and effort of getting the initial work done and now the revelation of a double digit percent price increase, and a low key threat of further delays unless you sign right now?

Sounds quite distressful.

In fact, it is by design stressful, so as to pressure the consumer to accept the new contract.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by toss1 on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:51PM (#26784276)
I think I pointed that out - that a lawsuit as an individual is very hard to prove for a lower cost than any amount that you would recover

I.e., a lawsuit is not scaleable as an individual.

Tesla are taking advantage of that advantage of that asymmetry in scale, and basically saying "this is wrong, so sue us", knowing that few or zero will, and most will just eat that dung sandwich.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by JoeAltmaier on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:51AM (#26777233)
In America, they are of course free to not do business. The contract spells out the cost of doing so. In fact, this is the major purpose of contracts - specifying penalties for non-performance. It has to be a sum of money.

A contract cannot compel any action - it is an agreement on what is expected and the cost of non-compliance.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by dragonwriter on Monday April 12, 2021 @06:05AM (#26777740)
> A contract cannot compel any action - it is an agreement on what is expected and the cost of non-compliance.

Every part of this sentence before and after “it is an agreement on what is expected” is incorrect. A contract may lay out consequences of noncompliance, but it is contract law, not the terms of the contract that will set the actual consequences; those set in the contract are valid in only limited circumstances, and only then if their amount is appropriate under the law. And the manner of enforcement may be too compel performance of the obligations in the contract, see the remedy called “specific performance”.

Re:Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a y... by JoeAltmaier on Monday April 12, 2021 @10:09AM (#26779622)
Not as I read it? A breach results in either damages or cancellation-and-restitution. Which is money either way.

There is a little-used 'specific performance' case but that's for objects of art or whatnot, especially when no monetary value can be assigned. And in the overwhelming number of situations, should not be relied upon for remedy.

Its cash (almost) all the way.