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Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by RcouF1uZ4gsC on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:33AM (#26751829)
> I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest

The whole "voting against your own interest" is hugely paternalistic and anti-democratic. People have their own set of values and interests. As an outsider without knowledge of the people to accuse them of voting against their own interest because they did not vote the way you wanted them to is the height of arrogance.

Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by Loughla on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:39AM (#26751933)
Relax. I guess I should've said - "What I perceive as your own collective interest," although I would argue that was implied.

I didn't intend to be arrogant at all, I am legitimately confused. The two jobs that I was in a union, the union was massively beneficial to my life. That is where my perspective came from.

Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by macinjosh on Friday April 09, 2021 @12:41PM (#26752742)
"The two jobs that I was in a union, the union was massively beneficial to my life."

Just because the union was beneficial does not mean it was better to have it around than not to. You only experienced one side of the coin in those situations.

Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by Loughla on Friday April 09, 2021 @12:49PM (#26752842)
I didn't feel like typing out everything involved, but yes, it was better than not having it. Both positions became unionized during my tenure with those organizations. The pay, benefits, and time-off benefits were much better as a union shop than before we unionized.

I know it is just my experience, so it's very anecdotal evidence at best. And that was my point - that is my experience, which is why I'm confused by the massive vote against unionization. I, personally, do not understand it and would like to.

[dead]
Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by peytn on Friday April 09, 2021 @12:22PM (#26752517)
I dunno, it’s better on HN to give people the benefit of the doubt. The overlap of software engineer and conservative punditry consumer is pretty small relatively speaking. It’s not like the ideas put forth are too convoluted for somebody to have on their own.
Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by virgil_disgr4ce on Friday April 09, 2021 @12:19PM (#26752470)
I mean, it is possible for one person to know certain things that another person does not, and further possible that the latter person WOULD act differently if they had that knowledge.
Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by darkwater on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:35AM (#26751873)
OP is actually just asking why, and explaining they don't understand why workers voted that way, which superficially seems "wrong".
Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by luckylion on Friday April 09, 2021 @11:47AM (#26752066)
And that's paternalistic, isn't it? "They voted against their interest" implies that OP knows/decides what their interests are.

Personally, I've never met someone who knew workers that was fundamentally surprised by their decisions. It was always the people who only talked, read and wrote about workers that were flabbergasted. Source: worked as a consultant for a union in Europe for a decade.

Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by Loughla on Friday April 09, 2021 @12:43PM (#26752763)
OP was implying what his/her interests are, or rather, would be, s/he believes, in this case. Source: I am OP and that was my intention.

That's why I asked for someone with direct experience to comment. I am confused, based on my own viewpoint and experience with unions.

>I've never met someone who knew workers that was fundamentally surprised by their decisions.

I don't, genuinely don't understand this sentence. What is workers? Who are workers? What group of people would you consider workers? I've been part of two unions, both of which benefited me, personally, immensely. These were knowledge jobs and not hands-on jobs. Am I a worker? My father is very blue-collar manufacturing and he has been both anti- and pro-union, depending on which shop he worked for. Is he a worker?

I don't understand what you're saying. Honestly. It sounds like you're the font of some mystical knowledge about a mythical group of people. What do you mean by your statement? I don't get it.

Re:Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama by luckylion on Friday April 09, 2021 @02:25PM (#26754114)
> I don't, genuinely don't understand this sentence. What is workers? Who are workers?

Workers are people who work in the rougher jobs, blue collar if that's what you prefer. White collar unions are very different in my opinion.

My experience is this: I've worked with people who were workers and then transitioned to working for the union, either because they were natural organizers, or because they had accidents that made it hard to work their job (a surprising amount of them had lost a finger or two). When they spoke about these kinds of things, like votes or organization rates, they were quick to give plenty of reasons why their colleagues would make some decision because they knew all the arguments and feelings.

The other type I met at the union was college educated, usually political science, spoke a lot of class consciousness and collective interests and had never worked the jobs the union represented. When you talked to them, they didn't understand why workers made some choice, it was always some nicely worded version of "they're not smart enough to make the right choice" or "somebody fed them lies".