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Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by skissane on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @01:47AM (#26708319)
> Totally agree, but I won't make a blind person the watchout guy on a ship. There are limits to inclusion.

Generally speaking, a blind person can't do anything to improve their vision.

A person with a social disability can learn coping strategies to perform better in social situations, in spite of their disability. In the literature on ASD, this process even has a name – "masking". They may never be as good at social stuff as someone without a social disability, they may find social situations draining, etc, but they can improve.

People with ASD [0] often have poor social intuition, but they can learn to think consciously about things which other people can identify intuitively. There's no reason why Stallman couldn't do that as well. Sometimes, given enough time, what first had to be learnt consciously can become more automatic, even intuitive.

Has Stallman been taking actions to try to improve as a result of this public controversy? No idea. But it is at least possible he has. Maybe he's been seeing a therapist. Maybe he's even shared that fact with the FSF board, and maybe they've taken that into account in their decision to reinstate him, but of course it wouldn't be appropriate for the FSF board to share that kind of private medical information publicly.

Of course, we also have to consider the fact that he is 68. Increasing cognitive rigidity is a natural consequence of ageing, and people can find it harder to change ingrained habits at 68 than if they were 20 or 30 or 40 years younger. Even so, I don't think being 68 makes change impossible, just harder.

[0] I'm not saying Stallman has ASD, simply that he may. Quite a few years ago he publicly expressed the opinion that he doesn't have ASD/autism/Asperger's, but I don't believe that was based on a professional evaluation, simply a case of "self-undiagnosis". Also, his comments demonstrate he doesn't have a good understanding of ASD, so I don't think his "self-undiagnosis" should be given a lot of weight. He obviously has signs of broad autism phenotype (BAP), but whether it is just BAP or whether it is ASD is something which only a professional can answer. BAP is not a clinical diagnosis, it is a very common subclinical condition. I don't think the BAP-vs-ASD boundary is important for this discussion – people with BAP have many of the same issues that people with ASD do, just to a milder and less disabling degree.

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by KingOfCoders on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @02:28AM (#26708632)
"Maybe he's even shared that fact with the FSF board, and maybe they've taken that into account in their decision to reinstate him"

If they had, it would be a good idea to have written into the press release.

"Of course, we also have to consider the fact that he is 68. Increasing cognitive rigidity is a natural consequence of ageing, and people can find it harder to change ingrained habits at 68 than if they were 20 or 30 or 40 years younger."

So you think someone with cognitive rigidity who can't change his habits is a good fit for a leadership role?

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by skissane on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @02:37AM (#26708698)
> If they had, it would be a good idea to have written into the press release.

If someone discloses to their employer that they are seeing a therapist, it would be inappropriate for their employer to put that disclosure in a press release. (Board members aren’t technically employees but I think the principle is the same.)

> So you think someone with cognitive rigidity who can't change his habits is a good fit for a leadership role?

If the FSF board wants to give him the opportunity to demonstrate an ability to change, why shouldn’t they? Also, they are much better judges of whether he is trying to change, and whether or not he’s having success in that, than external observers such as you or I can be. They are engaged in communications with him to which the general public are not privy

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by dragonwriter on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @02:42AM (#26708738)
> If the FSF board wants to give him the opportunity to demonstrate an ability to change, why shouldn’t they?

Because of the forseeable adverse impact on other people to whom thet are responsible?

> Also, they are much better judges of whether he is trying to change, and whether or not he’s had success in that, than external observers such as you or I can be.

The at least one FSF board member who departed, and the FSF’s management who likewise resigned over the issue, OTOH, are in at least an equally good position to the Board members who supported the move.

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by skissane on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:11AM (#26709735)
> Because of the forseeable adverse impact on other people to whom thet are responsible?

Some people don't want to have anything to do with an FSF in which Stallman is still involved. Other people don't want to have anything to do with an FSF in which Stallman is definitely excluded. Whatever they do is going to have an adverse impact, so they have to make a judgement call.

> The at least one FSF board member who departed, and the FSF’s management who likewise resigned over the issue, OTOH, are in at least an equally good position to the Board members who supported the move.

I don't know if we should interpret their resignation as a judgement that Stallman can't change (or isn't interested in changing), or as an expression of the view that other factors are more important in deciding whether he should be on the board than that one.

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by KingOfCoders on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @03:08AM (#26708937)
"If someone discloses to their employer that they are seeing a therapist, it would be inappropriate for their employer to put that disclosure in a press release."

In principle yes, but not if that was the reason the person could not have the leadership role in the first place.

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by skissane on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:52AM (#26709610)
If someone confides in you their private medical information, it is inappropriate to put that information in a press release without their permission, full stop, no exceptions. Certainly morally, and possibly even legally.

"Is it okay if I put your private medical information in our press release?"–many people would view that question as inappropriate to even ask.

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by KingOfCoders on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:05AM (#26722645)
"without their permission"

Yes.

But I didn't say it is appropriate, me saying this was only in your head.

Re:Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals by skissane on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @12:29PM (#26727212)
My opinion is that it is inappropriate without permission, but it is also inappropriate to ask permission.