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Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:14PM (#26700859)
> "The bottom line is that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a guide dog should be able to go anywhere that a blind person can go."

Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by dogs? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely to crash the car if there was a dog in the car of any kind. I've had traumatic experiences with dogs and being near one sends me into panic.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ARandumGuy on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:29PM (#26701100)
Then the business needs to find some way to accommodate both the employee and the customer. In Uber's case, the only requirement is that riders with guide dogs should be able to get a ride in the same time window as any other rider, at the same price. The ADA does not require that every driver has to drive guide dogs. It's up to Uber to figure out a solution, and they should have to pay up until they implement one.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:39PM (#26701246)
Thank you. I think this is a reasonable strategy. Requiring every driver to accept dogs against their allergies and PTSD on the other hand, I don't agree with, as that would directly endanger lives.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by Pfhreak on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:17PM (#26700909)
If you are providing rides as a business, you must be willing to accept seeing eye dogs. If you cannot meet this qualification, then your options are limited.

I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like you might not want to own a driving business or you may want to work with your employer to accommodate your needs. (e.g. by dispatching another driver, etc.)

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by lupire on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:26PM (#26701058)
Drivers are not a "business". They are laborers for Uber, which is the business.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by Pfhreak on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:41PM (#26701279)
I mean, yeah, I'd love to liver in that world. Unfortunately, Uber has campaigned widely that their drivers are, in fact, independent contractors and not employees.

The drivers should be employees, imo, but the way the company is structured today, they are not.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by anoonmoose on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:33PM (#26701153)
That's how it should be, that is not how it is.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by BoiledCabbage on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:17PM (#26700905)
You should take that into consideration before taking on a job that might require you to drive around dogs.

As a country we decided long time ago, that people who require seeing-eye dogs shouldn't be subjected to substandard treatment by society - as was the case before the law protected the visually impaired.

If you want to completely avoid dogs, then don't take a job that involves having to interact with dogs.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by keenreed on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:33PM (#26701159)
Most Uber drivers did not "took a job". Uber drivers originally started as self-employed contractors. Part of that is ability to refuse some rides.

Most dog owners have no control over their animals. I have PTSD from dogs, if dog would touch me, I will go into panic attack, and it will not go well for anyone. It is question of safety.

So I have a question for you. As a driver, do I have a right to refuse a drive, if I am concerned that customer will start licking me?

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by NLips on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:17PM (#26700907)
If you are driven into a panic by being near a service dog, you are not fit to be a taxi driver. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by shuntress on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:16PM (#26700892)
This is equivalent to a landlord saying "Sorry, it's to expensive to build wheel chair ramps. So we didn't build any"

According to Uber, you need to call up another driver and get them to come take over for you because Uber will not.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:25PM (#26701035)
If you're building a new building you should be required to have wheelchair ramps. Allergies and PTSD to ramps isn't really a thing, so it's okay to require them.

If you have an old building it's on the government to provide the ramps OR cut property taxes so that the landlord has the cash to install the ramps. If you want to hit everyone with insane property taxes they can't be expected to maintain buildings to standards at the same time.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by shuntress on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:48PM (#26701371)
I don't think there was anyone signed up as a driver with Uber before the ADA existed but for the sake of argument, we can assume those people exist. Yes, I agree that they should receive government-funded training that teaches them to tolerate a service dog in their car.

Every who signs up to be an Uber driver after the signing of the ADA must be capable of transporting service dogs.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:52PM (#26701435)
That kind of policy means that people with PTSD from dogs who are desperate for a job will sign up and WILL experience PTSD and WILL endanger riders.

It's a shitty policy IMO.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by shuntress on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:02PM (#26701588)
I feel like you might kind of be missing the point here...

Uber should have to deal with this systemically because it is shitty to just leave it up to the drivers.

Please note that in your example here, it is also shitty for the rider who is expecting to be driven somewhere safely.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:11PM (#26701681)
Yes, I agree with you, Uber should have to deal with it.

A lot of people in this thread are arguing that the driver should be forced to suck it up and I think that's shitty for both the driver's and rider's safety.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by Miner49er on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:24PM (#26701834)
I don't see much of an other option for Uber if they want to fix this.

It's not uncommon for small towns to have one Uber driver going at certain times. Well that driver can't be the only driver around if they aren't going to take service animals. So Uber would have to tell them that they can't drive unless they are willing to take service animals or there is another driver around that is willing to.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by shuntress on Monday April 05, 2021 @05:14PM (#26704820)
They have to make sure the service they offer complies with the ADA's requirements and where that is not possible they must not offer that service.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by selimthegrim on Monday April 05, 2021 @03:49PM (#26703726)
Ah, a Stephen Breyer counterfactual.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by Miner49er on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:42PM (#26701293)
The ADA says that is not a good enough reason to deny service:

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by adoxyz on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:20PM (#26700954)
Don't do a job that legally requires you to potentially have a service animal in your car then...
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:24PM (#26701010)
Not that I plan to, but if I did, I'd be able to pick up a lot of the slack of rides without dogs so that other drivers could pick up the dog rides. I'm sure many drivers are more than willing.

I don't see how this isn't a win-win for them to allow it but give each driver a preference.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by adoxyz on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:30PM (#26701115)
Because it's discrimination against people with disabilities and per the ADA illegal.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:36PM (#26701214)
So if I really need the cash, I need to risk my life and the customer's life in the name of ADA compliance ...
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by adoxyz on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:45PM (#26701332)
With that kind of logic, why not just a rob a bank if you really need cash. They're both illegal. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:57PM (#26701510)
Sorry, I don't think that's a fair or constructive comparison.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by dapids on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:18PM (#26700923)
Then don't drive Uber. Most businesses legally must allow service dogs.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by Operyl on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:18PM (#26700922)
Then it’s time to get into a different kind of business, really.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:48PM (#26701375)
Not every Uber driver has much choice of a thousand companies trying to hire them.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by Operyl on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:01PM (#26701565)
I'm terrified of heights, I probably shouldn't get a job as a window cleaner. Not every window cleaner has a thousand companies trying to hire them either.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:13PM (#26701706)
I think it's perfectly fine to be a window cleaner but refuse you're employer's request to go clean a 100-storey skyscraper and keep taking the 2-storey buildings you usually do.
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Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by NullPrefix on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:52PM (#26701429)
Fear of dogs is psychological, you can work it out through therapy. Peanut allergies are physiological, words wouldn't really help you there.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by orthecreedence on Monday April 05, 2021 @02:15PM (#26702494)
I think it's unfair to hand-wave a deathly fear of something away as "just work on urself lol." PTSD is a real thing, and it's not as easy as a handful of video chats with a therapist. Not to mention, someone driving for Uber probably doesn't have the resources to be in therapy in the first place.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by airstrike on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:37PM (#26701221)
Eating peanut butter sandwich isn't protected by law. Having service dogs is.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:41PM (#26701271)
How the law is written doesn't change the fact that driving on highway with peanut butter allergy is life-threatening, and driving on highway with PTSD to a stimulus in the car is also life-threatening.
Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by adoxyz on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:47PM (#26701362)
https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

> Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by ehmmmmmmmm on Monday April 05, 2021 @12:55PM (#26701478)
Again, the law doesn't precede science, and doesn't change the fact that it's going to be life-threatening.

You can quote the law all you want, but if you're blind and someone with PTSD is driving (and because they don't have much of a choice job-wise) you're going to be in grave danger.

If you don't want to be in grave danger, speak out against this law. End of story.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by NullPrefix on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:03PM (#26701601)
>because they don't have much of a choice job-wise

That is not an excuse to put other people in grave danger

>End of story.

Re:Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides by __turbobrew__ on Monday April 05, 2021 @01:30PM (#26701917)
The ADA has defined protected classes, and if you are not OK with a protected class you need to deal with it. How would you feel if I rephrased your comment:

Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by black people? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely to crash the car if there was a black person in the car of any kind. I've had traumatic experiences with black people and being near one sends me into panic.