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Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by jl2718 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:41PM (#26636877)
Imagine a world where cryptography doesn’t exist, so we have to trust volunteers to hand-count easily-forged pieces of paper.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by inglor_cz on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:38PM (#26639341)
After spending some years in development of cryptographic software, I became an ardent fan of not-so-easily forged pieces of paper. (Try counterfeiting modern banknotes. NOT easy.)

Cryptographic software is tricky, very easy to implement incorrectly or with major security gaps, completely opaque to the amateur user, vulnerable to all kinds of zero-days and possibly even progress in mathematics (God save us from the day when someone comes with a fast factorization algorithm). If secure enough, it will be burdensome enough that people will try to circumvent it. It runs on a stack of OSes and hardware that may (read: of course they do) have fatal security flaws rendering your secure app insecure.

No, thanks. Give me a paper ballot any day.

Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by jl2718 on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @05:08PM (#26653213)
You’re saying that it is possible for a cryptographic system to be insecure. I’m saying that it’s impossible for human counting to be secure.

Protocol: Alice and Bob send their votes to Eve. Eve wins. The end.

Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by tsimionescu on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @02:26PM (#26638354)
Votes are anything but easily forged, they are in fact quite trivial to secure.

What IS easily forged and extremely difficult, if not impossible, to secure is a result printed out by some opaque computer that is running a huge amount of software on an extremely complex processor which runs its own closed-source firmware, probably communicating over the internet 'securely' to some other computers.

Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by jl2718 on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @04:55PM (#26653071)
Oh yeah because we don’t use software at all in the current system.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by jayd16 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:49PM (#26636997)
Cryptography won't help if you want a secret ballot.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by drdaeman on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @02:12PM (#26638151)
Not true, there's a lot of research into voting systems that provide both secrecy and various verifiabilities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_auditable_voting_sy...
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by throway98752343 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @02:38PM (#26638521)
A voting system where voters can prove which way they voted is vulnerable to coercion or retribution.

The manager rounds up the workers and "suggests" they all compare how they voted. Those who voted "pro-company" will likely reveal their vote. So for everyone who refuses to reveal their vote, the manager checks a box next to their name on the attendance sheet.

There may be a voting system that provides all the desired guarantees, but I doubt such a system is also easily understood and trusted by the average voter.

Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by kevinsundar on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:10PM (#26638979)
You can partially defeat this by allowing people to change votes. Then everyone has something that "proves" they at some point voted pro-company but they could have changed it later.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by jayd16 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:25PM (#26639178)
Ok what about when you're coerced to change your vote?
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by kevinsundar on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @11:18PM (#26656282)
You change your vote, collect your reward, and change your vote back again?
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by zchrykng on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:17PM (#26639060)
Just make that kind of thing illegal like so many other things around union elections and come down on them like a ton of bricks if they violate this. Both the employers and unions.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by eightysixfour on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @05:13PM (#26640615)
We have secret ballots because this is not a solvable problem. If you're threatened with your job it is one thing, if you are threatened with violence for voting "incorrectly" it is another.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by jl2718 on Thursday April 01, 2021 @01:29PM (#26663588)
Current protocol: Alice sends her personal information and vote in the mail to Eve. TV tells Alice that the system is secure.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by uncoder0 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:53PM (#26637055)
Couldn't you use something like monero but, I guess then you couldn't audit it.
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by tomschlick on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @04:41PM (#26640156)
Re:Amazon loses effort to install camera to watch counting o... by jl2718 on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @04:54PM (#26653058)
There are people who are experts in cryptography, and there are people who are experts in rigging elections. The author of this comic is neither.