News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by lmilcin on Sunday March 28, 2021 @01:16PM (#26612117)
> I was not familiar with the original argument but it's so ridiculous at face value that I wonder if a rebuttal was necessary.

Apparently a huge number of blinded people run in amok preaching how Bitcoin is saving the world.

It is not.

There is no single reason for bitcoin to exist other than perpetuate value for people who are invested in it while also burning energy at a rate of not a very small country.

It needs to be repeated until enough people inept in financial or technical matters understand it.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by Empact on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:05PM (#26612603)
> There is no single reason for bitcoin to exist

Just from my lifetime: Hyperinflation in Venezuela and Zimbabwe. Inflation in Argentina. The housing bubble. The internet bubble. Banker bailouts. Our current everything bubble.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by foepys on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:19PM (#26612745)
How does Bitcoin help? Deflation is actually bad for the economy because people hoard money. It would be stupid to buy things because money gets more valuable over time while things depreciate.
Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by Empact on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:39PM (#26612938)
It's funny to me that deflation being bad is an orthodoxy despite the paucity of evidence for this. Can you point to a deflationary episode that was harmful? Japan had the "lost decade" of slow growth, but is slow growth bad? Is the absence of conspicuous consumption lamentable? In comparison, people starve and flee, and societies collapse under episodes of hyperinflation.

The classic example of functional deflation is in technology: computers have been under substantial deflationary pressure from the increase in performance year over year, yet people still have bought computers, and the industry has still prospered despite this.

Likewise, civilization was largely built on hard money economies, and prospered, despite the difficulty of debasing within them. It has largely fallen under soft money conditions, as in the the Weimar Republic, or the debasement of the late Roman Empire.

Note that this "deflation is bad" orthodoxy is propagated by the same economic regime that embraces inflation as beneficial, and profits from the printing of money.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by Closi on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:21PM (#26612764)
Bitcoin doesn't stop bubbles or protect you from one any more than investment in another asset - in fact it's more than likely a bubble itself.
Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by Empact on Sunday March 28, 2021 @03:12PM (#26613240)
The bubbles I've observed have been a product of or exacerbated by artificially low interest rates and the money printing that enables them. If Bitcoin achieves its goal, it will remove or reduce the power of the government to print money and otherwise set interest rates, which will enable market-based interest rates to emerge.
Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by lmilcin on Sunday March 28, 2021 @10:14PM (#26617030)
You are confused on concepts of inflation and bubbles.

Bubble happens when an actual value of something gets disconnected from its price. When people buy something for ever increasing prices without regard for actual value because they believe the price is going to go up.

In a bubble only the price of that one thing goes up, in relation of everything else.

In an inflation prices are representing the value of products but as value of money decreases the numbers representing prices must go up. In this case the price increase is caused not by increasing demand for the product but rather increasing supply of money.

Printing money causes value of existing money to be diluted because if tomorrow we have twice the amount of money in circulation than today but we are still buying same amount of products and services, then we will need to pay roughly twice the price to keep market equilibrium.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by Empact on Sunday March 28, 2021 @10:34PM (#26617124)
I disagree. Consider the housing bubble - it was tipped off by the response to the internet bubble, low rates from the fed so that people would borrow to get the economy moving again, e.g. by buying housing. Low rates result in more lending and buying, more lending and buying leads to price appreciation (pay attention, as this sequence is playing out again now), and eventually enough price appreciation and easy money leads to irresponsible lending and mania. The depreciation of the dollar through easy money lending has indirectly caused the bubble through the practices it encouraged.
Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by LAMike on Sunday March 28, 2021 @01:45PM (#26612398)
> Bitcoin is saving the world.

It saved my world, and millions of others.

All the things HN pundits love to talk about, but when it comes to actually making the world a better place, people like you become Luddites and naysayers.

HFSP

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by pessimizer on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:05PM (#26612604)
> It saved my world, and millions of others.

It definitely didn't. It may have made you money, or given you a creative programming outlet, or friends. You could also get that from dealing large amounts of cocaine, but you wouldn't be able to pretend you were a revolutionary.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by LAMike on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:33PM (#26612889)
You have no idea about me or my background. Stop trying to tell ME what I have experienced.

100 Million people have benefitted from Bitcoin and it's censorship resistant network.

If you can't figure out why this trillion dollar network has value, I can honestly say I am jealous of your financial and anglo centric privilege and hope you never acquire any Bitcoin, you obviously don't deserve it.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by adwn on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:03PM (#26612589)
> It saved my world, and millions of others.

How? Be specific.

> [...] but when it comes to actually making the world a better place [...]

How is Bitcoin making the world a better place? Be specific.

> HFSP

I had to look this one up. For anyone wondering, apparently it means "Have Fun Staying Poor".

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by LAMike on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:35PM (#26612909)
How is Bitcoin making the world a better place? Be specific.

Improving the lives of 100 million people by giving them a way to save money without a government agency. If you can't figure out why that has value, you're probably are a beneficiary of anglo centric privilege, and in that case I hope you NEVER buy any BTC.

> I had to look this one up.

Remember it. It won't be the last time someone says this to you

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by jenoer on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:20PM (#26612760)
The toxicity of a lot of Bitcoin advocates' comments on HN does not exactly make me feel like being invited to a fun movement.

"Have Fun Staying Poor" is in my opinion a disgusting remark to make to complete strangers.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by LAMike on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:37PM (#26612923)
> does not exactly make me feel like being invited to a fun movement

I heard Ethereum has a GREAT community, they even do synchronized dances in Unicorn outfits! Also they are moving towards PoS, so it won't boil the oceans like BTC.

You should really look into it! People from SV/HN find it much friendlier than the toxicity in the BTC community.

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by DasIch on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:07PM (#26612628)
Bitcoin being a net-negative investment doesn't exclude the possibility of a few winners. Much like some people do actually benefit from pyramid schemes.
Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by LAMike on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:39PM (#26612936)
Comparing Bitcoin to a pyramid scheme is a low IQ take, even for HN.

Please do like the OP and make better FUD so we can clown you in the comments further. Also, Bitcoin is a net-positive for the environment no matter how "mean" people like me are to you. Run the numbers

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by DasIch on Sunday March 28, 2021 @03:01PM (#26613131)
If bitcoin stopped existing today, the environment would be better off because right now the impact is negative. It could only become net-positive, if there are changes in the future. Even if you believe such changes will happen, I think you'll have to agree that this is speculation. It's not net-positive for the environment, it might be net-positive for the environment.

That's unrelated to it being negative-sum though. Running the numbers on this is trivial. You can only profit from bitcoin by selling it to someone else for more than you paid for it. Inevitably for some people to profit, some people have to lose a corresponding amount. This alone would make bitcoin zero-sum. Some people, miners, are special though in that they are by design always making a profit. That they extract from the network making bitcoin negative-sum.

As a consequence it's positive only for those people who find a loser to sell to, are miners or "shovel" makers (electricity, hardware, ...)

Re:Bitcoin is not a Battery – it is a Sink by LAMike on Sunday March 28, 2021 @03:35PM (#26613504)
I suggest you take a look at the stranded energy market and rethink your premise.

Energy is, at this moment, being overproduced by design

The reason for this is because in case there is an emergency (like a snowstorm in TX) energy producers can switch on overdrive and heat homes.

By increasing the amount of energy capacity we have, we become more resilient to situations that require massive amounts of energy. Society needs an increase in energy production in order to uplift the lifestyle of the world, there is no way around that.