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Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by theelous3 on Sunday March 28, 2021 @08:10AM (#26609634)
I was a fairly disruptive kid in school. It was all boyswillbeboys stuf. Drinking and smoking with friends in abandoned sections of the school. The kind of stuff that seems really serious then, and inconsequential now.

I was brought in front of the board for expulsion after a litany of these types of things, and questioned about anything and everything for about two hours.

We took the case to the board of education and got copies of all of the board members notes, one of which enraged me then and now.

Scrawled in the margins of this members notes - random physiological and psychological phrases. "R.E.M?" for rapid eye movement, "no empathy", "slouching" etc.

Some armchair psychologist that thinks a kid in a high pressure situation, looking around at a board of nine people, is displaying sociopathic traits. That somehow my seating posture related to my character.

They expelled me, and it was ultimately overturned by the state. Still bothers me that people try to apply these dogshit cues to make real life major decisions.

"Vindictive" and "spiteful" were some other good ones. They'd convinced themselves I was doing it to get them or something. The truth is, I was a bored unstimulated kid and the only consideration they got, was how I could avoid them as much as possible. Absolutely zero interest in sticking it to them or making their lives more difficult.

Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by everdrive on Sunday March 28, 2021 @09:48AM (#26610371)
This is an extreme case, but not an unusual one. People draw conclusions about people with very little information. They then carry on to believe that their conclusions have real weight, and are based in fact. It's part of why there were always be socially fluid types and con artists.
Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by cutemonster on Sunday March 28, 2021 @11:13AM (#26611014)
It's as if directly when they draw some random conclusion about someone, they stop thinking, stop evaluating that person any more.

And they go on believing forever that that weird first random idea they got, was right.

(I might be exaggerating a bit.)

Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by oceanghost on Monday March 29, 2021 @02:42PM (#26626357)
I know this isn't quite your point, but I can't tell you how many jobs I've not been offered due to missing some trivia question and the interviewer deciding my fate based on that.
Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by everdrive on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:25AM (#26634319)
I have a lot of anxiety about getting my next job, due to this and other reasons. "But you're well-qualified," my friends will say. Yes, but interviewers are capricious and irrational.
Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by darkerside on Sunday March 28, 2021 @08:56AM (#26609948)
It is pretty shitty of them to write those things about a kid, but they were asked to make a judgement. They weren't using these observations to figure out if you were lying, and when you say they thought you were "out to get them", you're actually playing into the same armchair psychology they were.

I don't mean to give you grief because I've been in similar situations. But I hope you've learned from it that people will hold you responsible for behaviors they observe, and not for your intentions behind them (e.g. acting sullen because you are actually terrified inside).

Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by roflc0ptic on Sunday March 28, 2021 @09:01AM (#26609981)
If they wrote that he was being vindictive and spiteful, then I don’t think it quite qualifies as armchair psychology on GP’s part
Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by darkerside on Sunday March 28, 2021 @10:34AM (#26610709)
They were assessing character and yes, making a judgement on it, which was their role. I find it likely that OPs behavior came off as seeming vindictive and spiteful, even if not intended that way. They would have done better to observe specific behaviors (which they did fairly with "slouching"), but their intent was likely to judge character and fit for the school, based on the evidence in front of them.

Not saying it's easy, especially for a kid, but if you go in front of a panel like that, if you can demonstrate remorse and desire to change, it goes a long way.

Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by theelous3 on Sunday March 28, 2021 @11:13AM (#26611013)
> if you can demonstrate remorse and desire to change, it goes a long way

It sounds like you're presuming to know more about what happened there than you can. I fully expressed remorse, and explained how in hindsight I understand that what I was doing was disruptive, and that I wouldn't behave that way in the future, etc.

Their rubbish analysis was just that. Also, how is "slouching" a fair thing to observe in analysis? I sit with bad posture. I did then and I do now. It's completely irrelevant.

Oh, I should also point out that by this point I had been clinically diagnosed with ADD - which they expressed, and I'll have to paraphrase as it was about 13-14 years ago, was "made up" and that it couldn't possibly explain my behaviour.

Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by darkerside on Sunday March 28, 2021 @06:05PM (#26615123)
Yeah, I wasn't there and don't presume to know what actually happened. This will come off the wrong way, but I don't know another way to say it so... Feedback is a gift. Even if it's wrong, it is based on some kind of truth in someone's perception. Sometimes it's truly worthless, but I believe there's always something to learn from our fellow humans, even if they express their message in an utterly disgusting way.
Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by nitrogen on Sunday March 28, 2021 @10:56AM (#26610873)
Not saying it's easy, especially for a kid, but if you go in front of a panel like that, if you can demonstrate remorse and desire to change, it goes a long way.

This only furthers the advantage of those most willing and able to lie. Especially so when the system and punishment is arbitrary and capricious rather than rooted in first principles. We should focus on outcomes and shared goals, not easily faked attitudes.

Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by darkerside on Sunday March 28, 2021 @06:07PM (#26615140)
Why do you assume it's a lie? I'd say it's at worst uncorrelated to the truth. And, apart from whether you mean it or not, I believe there's value in learning how to tell people that you do. It's up to you then to decide whether you want to use that power to lie.
Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by theelous3 on Sunday March 28, 2021 @08:07PM (#26616207)
GP isn't saying it's a lie, they are saying it rewards liars. That's an important distinction.
Re:How can you tell if someone is lying? by darkerside on Monday March 29, 2021 @12:24AM (#26617688)
> This only furthers the advantage of those most willing and able to lie.

The presence of the word "only" clearly makes an assumption that it is a lie.