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Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by inetknght on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:38AM (#26593372)
> hire quickly and fire quickly

This kind of mentality is not conducive to a well-functioning nation with people who have dependents and need stability.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by dillondoyle on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:04PM (#26594428)
I would reverse it.

The nation is not conducive to business if it can't provide healthcare and safety nets for those without work or in between jobs. In the US we are held hostage with healthcare based on our employers - if you're even lucky enough to have a stable job with benefits.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by masklinn on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:28PM (#26596542)
"Hire quickly and fire quickly" has other issues than healthcare and safety nets though, moving across a country and spending weeks trying to find a place to live (possibly losing money on rent because you can't find anything to buy yet) only to have to do it again in a few weeks' time is difficult.

Less of an issue if you're full remote, or you provide good accommodations, I guess.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by yellowapple on Saturday March 27, 2021 @12:31AM (#26599920)
Not to mention that most apartments have mininum lease durations, and penalties for breaking said leases. So if you move for a new job, sign a one year lease (because that's all that's available, or you can't afford to pay extra for shorter terms), and then a month later you're handed a box and a security escort...
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by namdnay on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:35PM (#26597834)
Indeed. And of course the biggest advantage of them all: living in a big city. One of the main reasons for the salary difference: it's a lot easier to get raises if there are 10 companies offering the same job
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by pmlnr on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:28PM (#26596535)
Show me one coutry who pays unemployed benefit at the level of the job you need to leave because of that insane hire fast fire fast.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by namdnay on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:37PM (#26597853)
In France your jobseeker's allowance is 80% of the average salary of your last 12 working months. Whether your last employer was for 10 years or 10 days. It starts slowly ramping down after the second year of searching I think
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by barry-cotter on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:22PM (#26598567)
French unemployment has been well above US unemployment since the 70s. This isn’t a free lunch. If the state makes employing people more expensive employers will employ fewer people.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by paledot on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:17PM (#26599609)
Given sufficiently generous unemployment benefits (ie. mincome), I fail to see how that's a bad thing.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by barry-cotter on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:23PM (#26599641)
Because most people who do work are being productive, doing useful things, serving their fellows. And being unemployed if you’re of working age and without some other productive role is awful.

Unemployment is bad for society generally and for the unemployed. Maybe one day we’ll get to fully automated luxury gay space communism but France is not there. Those extra unemployed people are having their talents and productivity wasted by economic mismanagement.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by splithalf on Friday March 26, 2021 @03:54PM (#26596213)
To say nothing of the universities.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by m0llusk on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:52PM (#26594947)
Past patterns can be an interesting contrast. During WWII generals were hired and fired quickly. Because the practice was pervasive there was no big stigma to being fired and there were always alternative positions to try. It also helped that there was a general structure which was not explicit or required but was broadly exhibited. That is, new hires were expected to show basic proficiency within two weeks and to make a significant contribution with in six weeks. Since a relatively quick test of skills was built in to the management structure there was less pressure on initial evaluation.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by ravi-delia on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:08PM (#26594471)
I definitely think that if every employer used Netflix's strategy there would be issues, but if the job market had more churn stability would take on a different meaning. Imagine that it was expected to change jobs frequently if you or your employer was unhappy; I'd bet lots of people would be way happier.

The problem is of course that even if you have every reason to think that some other place would hire you, you need a degree of slack to begin with. There aren't any easy answers there, but that's where I'd say an expanded social safety net should come in.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by plank_time on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:41AM (#26593410)
Saying that it isn’t conducive to an entire nation is a bit of an over-dramatization, don’t you think?

I think a generous severance makes up for that. Plus people would know what they are getting into, just like Netflix. If you don’t want the risk/return you don’t have to apply or accept a job there.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by inetknght on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:58AM (#26593631)
> Saying that it isn’t conducive to an entire nation is a bit of an over-dramatization, don’t you think?

I don't think so.

> I think a generous severance makes up for that.

That's your opinion. But what you think is generous isn't necessarily what others think is generous.

> Plus people would know what they are getting into, just like Netflix.

I disagree.

> If you don’t want the risk/return you don’t have to apply or accept a job there.

The risk/return needs to be clear though and hirefast/firefast isn't always clear.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by mixmastamyk on Friday March 26, 2021 @02:19PM (#26595195)
These arguments are silly. If you’re competent you’ve got nothing to worry about. If not, then something to work on.

Incredible hiring risk aversion is what makes finding a job for everyone a shitshow. Definitely not an efficient market as it stands.

If it weren’t for an easy to hire organization that gave me a chance, I’d likely be homeless.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by namdnay on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:57AM (#26593616)
If the nation is well-functioning, getting fired isn’t the end of the world. If your job is independant of your healthcare and you have several years of allowance to seek another one it’s fine to try out a few jobs before finding what sticks
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by darth_avocado on Friday March 26, 2021 @05:51PM (#26597405)
Only when the pay doesn't compensate for the instability, which in Netflix's case, is a lot. You could work two months and have enough saved to last you an year.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by r00fus on Friday March 26, 2021 @02:46PM (#26595483)
It would absolutely work -- assuming everyone has access to healthcare (preferably universal coverage).

Unfortunately this cuts at the moat that big corporations have set up not to mention health insurance industry and big pharma. Which is why it hasn't happened yet here (though it has in many other countries).

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by lupire on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:17PM (#26598942)
Everyone has access to healthcare in the US, under ACA and Medicare.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by tofuahdude on Friday March 26, 2021 @02:22PM (#26595227)
It isn't a company's responsibility to create a well-functioning nation.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by omginternets on Friday March 26, 2021 @02:36PM (#26595368)
Says who, Milton Friedman?

Surely companies have some minimal responsibility to act ethically, and surely behaving in a way that causes social dysfunction is not ethical.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by barry-cotter on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:26PM (#26598586)
Netflix doesn’t act unethically. They are upfront about how they hire and fire and people select into applying there and jobs there based on that. Same as CostCo has much higher standards for employees than Walmart and much higher benefits. If all employers were like Costco lots of people would be unemployed who currently have jobs. Having an employment model that is not perfectly average is not unethical.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by heartbeats on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:12PM (#26596373)
It's the responsibility of the government to create a well-functioning nation, and to use corporations to this end. But to suggest that people or the corporations have a direct responsibility, is to shift the responsibility away from those who are on 'our side', and to those who are either neutral or its primary victims.
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by omginternets on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:14PM (#26596404)
Surely every stakeholder has some degree of responsibility in the proper functioning of any system.

By your reasoning, I am free to degrade public infrastructure such as roads because it is not my responsibility to build them.

Equivalently: I am morally justified in committing crimes since I am not a police officer.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by mixedCase on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:32PM (#26596584)
>Surely every stakeholder has some degree of responsibility in the proper functioning of any system.

A civilization enforces responsibility through the law.

>I am free to degrade public infrastructure such as roads because it is not my responsibility to build them.

Yes. And either the government should set laws to prevent you from misusing the infrastructure, and/or the people should shun your company for being a bad actor. The former being consistent for infrastructure that is owned and maintained by the tax-funded government.

>I am morally justified in committing crimes since I am not a police officer.

Morality and legality are different things. Neither people nor corporations should be judged by the government through the abstract, subjective morality of individuals, only by agreed upon, written law, and at its loosest which is a court's interpretation of the law.

You as an individual can hold anyone responsible for anything under any criteria, but then you should state you're speaking for yourself as per your own moral code. As a society, we have rules for that.

If you want to make your moral code the law, then that should also be explicitly mentioned as such instead of speaking as if it's the status quo.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by omginternets on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:39PM (#26596670)
>Yes. And either the government should set laws to prevent you from misusing the infrastructure, and/or the people should shun your company for being a bad actor.

It seems we agree. Similarly, governments should encode the civic responsibility of businesses into law.

Whether or not they have actually done that is a different debate.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by heartbeats on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:31PM (#26596571)
I have a responsibility not to violate the law or vandalize the roads, but I don't think I have a responsibility to drive extra carefully or patch up potholes as I see them.

To me, this seems like a very cynical scheme. We tell "normal people" that they, personally, ought to BUY AMERICAN to prevent jobs from moving abroad. When they eventually do, we can tell them they should've done more and that it was their fault. It shifts the liability on to the victims, rather than the perpetrators.

But the responsibility of ensuring that a country has a good trade deficit is upon the government, if anyone! There's no serious way I can prevent it, so the only real point of saying it's my responsibility is to diminish the government's responsibility for failing to prevent it.

To suggest that the companies have a moral obligation, is to suggest that an abstract body corporate can have a conscience. If it could, there would be no need to ban slavery - just expect that the honest businessmen of America cease to traffic in them.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by omginternets on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:38PM (#26596652)
>I don't think I have a responsibility to drive extra carefully or patch up potholes as I see them.

We agree. We also agree that businesses do not have the responsibility of fixing society.

However, they do have the responsibility not to degrade it.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by heartbeats on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:33PM (#26599042)
When you add in "responsibility" like that, it becomes very vague. What does it mean for a company to have morally transgressed? Does it mean that it has violated its conscience, or does it just mean that it's an unfortunate behavior we would do best to punish?

Companies are inert objects. They do not have consciences. I can't say that a company does an evil thing, any more than I can blame a rock someone else threw for hitting my head. It hurts, but I can't very well blame the rock for it. Companies are just like driftwood in the ocean; their motion is defined solely by the forces acting upon them.

What is left, then, is to suggest that society should go after the companies that don't do what we want. But this can never be done by individuals. It has to be done by unions, governments, or something of the sort. It cannot be done by the companies themselves, and it cannot be done by individuals.

When you suggest that companies are doing something wrong, and not the government for failing to regulate them, this is tantamount to suggesting that the responsibility for punishing them actually lay on the individual. But to do so makes the primary victim into the perpetrator of the aggression against him. It is a terrible thing to do.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by gnopgnip on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:41PM (#26594842)
In the SF bay area for these roles the job market is much more fluid than most places
Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by lupire on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:15PM (#26598928)
Why? COBRA covers 3months of health insurance; ACA covers more, and unemployment insurance and severance pay gives you months to look for another.

The only major problem would be relocation, so I'd suggest working a few months at a new job before relocating for it.

Re:Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing... by beckingz on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:24PM (#26599312)
You have to pay the employer's share for COBRA, which is usually thousands of dollars per person per month. Right when you've lost income from the job.