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Re:Free Software: An idea whose time has passed? by __blockcipher__ on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:19PM (#26587823)
Minsky denies having sex - not that he ever wouldn’t if he did have sex - but my understanding is that she was above the age of consent in the jurisdiction they were in, assuming he knew her age.

“Where you live” should not be the determinant here

I don’t see how Stallman’s admittedly autistic comments are damning. He was pointing out that it is very plausible that to Minsky the girl presented herself as willing and consenting despite secretly being coerced by Epstein.

Re:Free Software: An idea whose time has passed? by skissane on Friday March 26, 2021 @05:18AM (#26590140)
> Minsky denies having sex - not that he ever wouldn’t if he did have sex

Does the victim, Virginia Roberts Giuffre, agree or disagree with that denial?

If you read her actual deposition [0] it isn't very clear. It is clear that Epstein/Maxwell told her to have sex with Minsky, but it isn't clear whether it actually happened or not. She isn't explicit on that point, and the questioner doesn't ask her to elaborate.

As far as I am aware, in her subsequent public statements and interviews, she has never clarified this specific issue.

Obviously that makes a huge difference as to how one morally judges Minsky. Worse case scenario, Minsky was a willing and knowing client of Epstein's sex trafficking ring. Best case scenario, he displayed poor judgement in continuing to associate with Epstein after his conviction, but was innocent of any participation in Epstein's sexual crimes. I don't think we have enough facts to decide between those two possibilities, but maybe in the absence of evidence we ought to assume the best of people (and especially of the deceased.)

[0] https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ZOEKwoBnDKUFI1hLbFJH5nsUFx... pages numbered 204–205 (PDF pages 182-183)

Re:Free Software: An idea whose time has passed? by sudosysgen on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:51PM (#26587990)
I'm not a moral legalist nor an absolute moral relativist. Flying out to a different jurisdiction to do morally wrong things doesn't make out any better.

I don't understand how you could pretend that Epstein's coercion was secret. It was literally a matter of public record.

Re:Free Software: An idea whose time has passed? by __blockcipher__ on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:24AM (#26588993)
You changed the goalposts. We're not discussing whether it's moral or not. We're discussing Stallman's comment that the interaction between Minksy and the girl was plausibly not sexual assault - specifically whether his comment was unreasonable or not.

Obviously I'm not endorsing having sex with one of Epstein's victims...

Re:Free Software: An idea whose time has passed? by kaba0 on Saturday March 27, 2021 @03:23AM (#26600620)
> We're discussing Stallman's comment that the interaction between Minksy and the girl

No, it is irrelevant (that alone should not lead to letting him go).

The many cases of actual in-person harassments are the important parts, like actually grabbing a colleague’s ass and there is plenty of others - just because “that side” is wrong on the former point, doesn’t make them wrong on the other.

Re:Free Software: An idea whose time has passed? by sudosysgen on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:14AM (#26593111)
No, I'm not changing the goalposts. My definition of sexual assault doesn't change depending on where in the world the sexual assault takes places. Having sexual encounters with an underage person is at least sexual assault, full stop. I don't care if you flew to an island where it's technically legal beforehand or if local laws are different.