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Re:Do you really want Linux phones by kokx on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:21PM (#26574920)
Yes I want a Linux phone. But I also want one that has similar app support to Android and iOS.

The problem is not with the Linux phones that are out there, it is that no apps are and likely never will be compatible with (non-Android) Linux phones. Until that is solved, most people (like me) could not switch out their phone for a Linux phone as a daily driver, however much they would like.

Having Linux as an alternative for Windows is a lot easier than having Linux as an alternative for Android/iOS. A lot of the Windows applications we use can be replaced by opensource applications on Linux. And browser based applications already work on both.

However, apps on Android/iOS are mostly tied to cloud services. Unfortunately services that most people need in this age. Messaging systems like WhatsApp and Signal are usually tied to your phone, and going without them would result in social isolation for a lot of people. But also for banking and sometimes government services, you likely need to use their apps. And there will never be opensource alternatives for such apps.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by justaguy88 on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:25PM (#26574947)
Why can't linux run android apps? https://anbox.io/ exists, I'm sure it could become a more integrated thing on a linux phone
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by kokx on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:48PM (#26575180)
Yes, Anbox exists, and has done some amazing things. But can this run apps that require Google Play Services, such as WhatsApp, most banking apps, and governmental apps?

It is very unfortunate that so much of the Android ecosystem relies on a very proprietary and cloud-connected piece of software. Without it, most apps simply refuse to work. MicroG has done amazing things here, but unfortunately a lot of things still break when using it, to no fault of the MicroG developers.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by toyg on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @10:52PM (#26576019)
This is a classic scenario that Linux also faced. Some people might be too young to remember, but a lot of services used to rely on Internet Explorer 6- and ActiveX when there was no chance whatsoever of getting those running properly on Linux. Later we had issues with DRM for streaming sites, which have probably not been fully solved yet.

The truth is that service and app developers only care about one thing: audience size, which translates to actual money. And it takes a long time to build that audience, even more so in the mobile world where all metrics are orders of magnitude bigger than on the desktop. Until Linux phones can show they have sizeable audiences, developers will ignore them. Tens of thousands is nothing, we’ll need millions. Realistically, this is not going to change in 12 months or even 2 years.

But, something can be done in the meantime: making all popular app-development frameworks run on mobile Linux, and then putting pressure on developers to produce app builds. When portability comes essentially for free, it becomes easy to support an additional platform just for the brownie points.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by Mediterraneo10 on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:54PM (#26575216)
WhatsApp doesn't actually require Google Play Services, as everyone running LineageOS can tell you. Even if you don’t have Play Services and the Google Play Store, you can install Whatsapp from Aurora Store (off F-Droid) and then Whatsapp runs just fine on your vanilla Android.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by hda2 on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @10:01PM (#26575752)
Okay, but what about the apps that do? Some governments and banks require you to use their apps to get certain things done.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by judge2020 on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @10:17PM (#26575829)
Currently the only option is to either help with the efforts to run and emulate Google Play Services or switch to a different bank - much like requiring in-person visitors wear a mask, they're legally allowed to require you to use certain software or certain mechanisms to access your bank account.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by Mediterraneo10 on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @10:31PM (#26575910)
> help with the efforts to run and emulate Google Play Services

Modern bank apps require not just Google Play Services, they also require the phone to pass Safety Net. Play Services substitutes like MicroG aren’t capable of that.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by pogo99 on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @11:07PM (#26576122)
Yes, in fact here is a video of a pinephone running WhatsApp using Anbox: https://youtu.be/Y-9Wmki7DsU?t=2007

download the apk from https://www.whatsapp.com/android/, start anbox (this takes a while), install android-tools, adb install WhatsApp.apk, done. It also works with stuff like Duo Mobile, which is the 2FA my organization uses (which is interesting because it doesn't agree with my rooted lineageOS phone).

Anbox comes by default on current versions of Manjaro

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by ekianjo on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:11AM (#26578316)
Let's not pretend that Anbox is some kind of magical drop in solution. I tried it many times and it's completely hit-and-miss at this stage, and development is very slow. Relying on Anbox for the future would be foolish unless someone steps in to massively increase the funding and resources on this project.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by Ardon on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:46PM (#26575162)
Some distros on the pinephone can run android apps with anbox!
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by rabuse on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @11:07PM (#26576117)
This is why I'm all for the future of apps being web-based. Write once, and able to run everywhere.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by tsimionescu on Thursday March 25, 2021 @02:38AM (#26577138)
Gradually making Chrome the only OS that really matters.

The web is already almost as closed (for apps) as phones are - you can choose Chrome, Safari if you're on Mac, or Firefox. Everything else is just repackaged Chrome. Edit: forgot Opera Mini, for what it's worth.

Firefox is dying out, and Google is pushing for less and less user freedom in Chrome, while Apple is extremely reluctant to implement new features that make Safari a better app platform.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by SahAssar on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:09AM (#26581209)
> The web is already almost as closed (for apps) as phones are

What? Nobody needs permission to publish a webpage, while every week we hear about google or apple blocking or unpublishing apps with flimsy justifications.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by tsimionescu on Thursday March 25, 2021 @01:38PM (#26583122)
I was thinking of closed in terms of number of options, not publisher control of apps. You're right that browsers don't tend to censor content on the web today. Tomorrow, we'll see.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by isolli on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:21AM (#26579330)
Can you expand on which features Apple is reluctant to implement in Safari?
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by tsimionescu on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:26AM (#26579365)
These ones:

    Web Bluetooth
    Web MIDI API
    Magnetometer API
    Web NFC API
    Device Memory API
    Network Information API
    Battery Status API
    Ambient Light Sensor
    HDCP Policy Check extension for EME
    Proximity Sensor
    WebHID
    Serial API
    Web USB
    Geolocation Sensor (background geolocation)
    User Idle Detection
Note: I do understand Apple's privacy concerns with some or even most of them. But most of these are obviously necessary if you want to turn the browser into the main application platform, for better and for worse.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by earthscienceman on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @11:25PM (#26576259)
Sounds a little like what Firefox OS was trying to do. They had a great idea, they were just too far ahead of their time.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by chacha2 on Thursday March 25, 2021 @03:07AM (#26577245)
Not really, the iPhone planned to do the same thing.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by das4119 on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:17AM (#26578355)
KaiOS. Firefox as a toolkit / OS.

(Likely wrong terminology but you hopefully get the idea)

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by andagainagain on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @11:46PM (#26576395)
This is true for some people, but not for others, which is why this is so hard to generalize. a "linux phone" means different things to different people.

In a perfect world I'd have a phone that is analogous. As iPhone is to Apple, and android is to windows, my phone would be to whatever linux I use. Well, that's a tall order.

And because it's a tall order, the most efficient way to go through features is to start off with easy highly requested features and very slowly move toward the less important features that are harder to implement.

Phones with linux hits both sides of this equation. On one hand it turns out EVEN THOSE things are hard. On the other hand, people don't WANT to work on those things as much because free developers rarely want to work on other people's problems. I mean, some will, and those people are simply better people IMO, but rarely do they WANT to.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by wly_cdgr on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:14AM (#26580532)
There are some apps that are really necessary....a good messaging app, a ride hailing app, a map app, a decent browser, a notepad, a money sending app, maybe a couple others. The others are just a waste of time and I would actively prefer a phone ecosystem that does not support them. It's what I loved about Windows phones.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by toastal on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @09:14PM (#26575394)
It's a shame Mozilla just cut SSB support or at least you could easy make some web apps into lightweight apps on this sort of platform where Electron apps aren't small-screen-optimized but the website is.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by kome on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:28PM (#26574986)
> Yes I want a Linux phone. But I also want one that has similar app support to Android and iOS.

Replicant? https://replicant.us/

LineageOS? https://lineageos.org/

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by kokx on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:55PM (#26575235)
Which are both Android ROMs/distributions. Still requiring Google Play Services to do any of the things I want Android for. And they definitely do not have the same kind of hackability that full on Linux phones have.

LineageOS is what I'm currently using on my daily driver, as a compromise. I would very much prefer a Linux phone, but in the current state it can't even fulfill half my needs in a smartphone.

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by garaetjjte on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @09:35PM (#26575557)
>Still requiring Google Play Services to do any of the things I want Android for.

If that's a problem, are you aware of microG? https://microg.org/

Re:Do you really want Linux phones by kokx on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:37AM (#26578084)
I'm very aware of microG. They have done some amazing work. But unfortunately apps like banking apps require that you pass Google's SafetyNet. Which (understandably) is a lot more complicated to support in microG.
Re:Do you really want Linux phones by SilverRed on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:37PM (#26575079)
The recommended phone for replicant is a samsung s3 which is almost a decade old now.