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Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by supernovae on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @10:50AM (#26567926)
I guess I've learned since the pandemic and finding a new job during pandemic that being at the office wasn't as fulfilling as I once thought it was and that those social interactions were rather fake/short lived and the bursts of creativity I did enjoy were destroyed by upper management deciding everything we did would be thrown out for something new.

What I want is not another day sitting in a god forsaken office after sitting in crappy traffic but rather the ability to go have a coffee, grab some lunch or just hang out and "Talk shop" with people regardless of being direct co-workers, friends, peers and whatnot. Those are the kinds of people who called me, messaged me and asked me how I was doing. THe only other former co-workers who keep up with me are ones who quit and found new jobs too - it's like since we're not still suffering we're no longer friends and all too often we see that as fulfilling social interactions without question.

I guess with hindsight I actually see the "office" as anti-social - it creates bad/poor behaviors, people find solace in common suffering and 9 times out of 10 all of my co-workers were actually dicks who only showed up to work to avoid their unhealthy home life and again, with hindsight, I see they tried making me ancillary to their unhealth work life too.

hard to explain it in a small text box, but I guess i just see the office environment as extremely fake, demoralizing and depressing - even though i've had some great memories through it - i'd rather not be captive to sitting in a cubicle chair and actually develop much more rewarding, enriching and valuable experiences that translate to more productivity and creativity in the end.

Often times i don't even get to choose my co-workers and if I did, those teams are often short lived and i think that corporate disruption to things that matter on a human to human level is something we're refusing to challenge/change because "it is the way it is". I get thrown on a new team, and its not new friends, it's now colleagues to suffer with and build empty relationships.

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by npsimons on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @01:15PM (#26570135)
I second your whole post.

To try and empathize with a lot of the people bemoaning WFH, I believe they are just suffering from quarantines in general. I truly believe many of them would do fine if they could WFH 100%, but be able to go out with friends on weeknights and weekends.

You are absolutely right that the office is a pisspoor substitute for real comraderie, and I wish people would stop conflating the two.

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by joshstrange on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @02:43PM (#26571337)
I sympathize with the people who hate WFH but I think sometimes their sentiments towards WFF are slightly misplaced. They confuse "general quarantine", "kids doing school from home", "no good work/office area", and/or "unresolved issues with partner/husband/wife/etc" with WFH.

Personally I love working from home. It gives me a lot more flexibility, I have no commute, I have my dog with me, I can cook lunch or prep for dinner, I can do small chores on a break or to clear my head, I can take my dog on a walk, and the list goes on. That said I don't have kids and I have a home office. I was also fortunate to start WFH about 5 months before COVID hit so I was able to go out with friends and what not which totally satisfied my social needs, proving to me that any added stress while working from home now is caused by things other than WFH itself.

When I used to work in an office there were a number of people that were difficult to deal with and/or annoying to put up with. While I didn't go full WFH at that job I did get to the point where I was working 2 days a week from home and those days were glorious. Being able to pick who you are actual friends with (verses being forced in pretending to be nice to some truly toxic people) is so much nicer. I am friends with a handful of people at my new (WFH) company but that's because we both wanted to be friends and went out of our way to build the friendship not because we were forced to work together.

My hope is that people don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater" when this is all over and there is a choice of WFH or going back to the office. That said, it's not be for everyone/every job but one silver lining of this terrible last year has been a number of my staunchly anti-WFH friends talk about how much they have enjoyed it and how they want to continue it at least for part of the week if not fully.

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by oblio on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @06:19PM (#26573744)
I will probably work for 50 years (~20 -> ~70).

About 11 months a year (~1 month for holidays). Around 160 hours a month. So 1760 hours a year. And about 88k hours over my entire lifetime.

That works out to <<10 full years>> of my lifetime.

If I'm not socializing at work, albeit a bit constrained by the professional environment, something is super wrong. Restricting socialization strictly to weeknights and weekends seems... super radical to me.

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by supernovae on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:46AM (#26580928)
Oh, this isn't about sitting at home in isolation like we are doing during covid, this is about being out with people who actually care to have a healthy relationship. Working with people who inspire creativity, challenge your assumptions and actually get to know you as a person - things that are often difficult with direct peers because of corporate policies, competition for positions, hierarchy and career status nonsense...

I think your math actually suggests our way of life is actually extremely unhealthy with the assumption we should develop social systems at our places of employment that absolutely don't exist for any such activity.

We need those relationships - but the office way of work certainly isn't a healthy way to achieve them. People get fired, laid of, move to new orgs, get moved around, corporate policy is dictated from top down without regard to human experiences but rather bottom dollar value line.

Not saying it can't be done - but again - think back on all your working years - were many of your work relationships meaningful or just convenient? Do they know your family? kids? spouse? significant other? Do they wish you a happy birthday? did they call you during covid to see how your doing?

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by oblio on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:47AM (#26581722)
Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by npsimons on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @06:42PM (#26573950)
Working hours taking up so much of our life is an orthogonal, but not totally unrelated issue.

As with complaints against "working from home", I get the feeling that proponents of work socializing recognize there's a problem, but they have mis-identified the root cause.

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by oblio on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @06:47PM (#26574000)
> Working hours taking up so much of our life is an orthogonal, but not totally unrelated issue.

Well, we can complain about it, but it's a fact of life. It's almost like complaining that gravity drags us down :-)

Plus, for a lot of people does give them... something to do. A purpose, an activity, a place where they can use their skills and use their intellect.

It's hard to do this alone if everyone else is working. I guess you could try mingling with the rich people and join charities?

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by npsimons on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @07:13PM (#26574282)
Admittedly, my views on this come from the limits of my own experience - as someone who writes (and sometimes rights) software, I highly prize uninterrupted time in flow. I suppose writing and other such similar pursuits would work very well on an work environment that was isolated.

But I do try to exercise my empathy and recognize for some endeavors it's is useful to collaborate. I just wish that people wouldn't attribute intrinsic necessity of physically close collaboration where it is not warranted.

My purpose or activity, even after I'm financially independent will be writing software, something I can do without having to be in close contact with people I am working with, and I in fact am much more productive when I'm not.

And honestly, even at 40 hours a week, I still have a lot of time in which I've formed my best social relationships. My coworkers are nice people, I just have shockingly little in common with them outside of work.

Re:Silicon Valley firms in no hurry to open up offices despi... by prawn on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:30AM (#26578447)
Maybe try part-time at a co-working space. You get some company a few days a week, but if it turns out you hate the group, moving is easier than at your employer's office.

I've worked in shared offices for 20+ years and have made a lot of long-term friends through them.