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Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by hutzlibu on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:33AM (#26539413)
But it was no vague anonymous - he once hit on me - lynch mob, but very concrete criticism of RMS. Things he said and did in the past - and in the present.

(only thing would be, that his "voluntary resign" was obviously done with a lot of pressure)

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by nyolfen on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:26AM (#26539829)
one of those criticisms as a i recall was 'he had a mattress in his office' as if this suggested something untoward rather than him sleeping in his office
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by dralley on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:39AM (#26539972)
No. If you go back and look at that accusation, it was that he was propositioning people for sex in the halls of MIT, AND he had a mattress in his office.
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by nyolfen on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:15AM (#26540321)
> propositioning people for sex in the halls of MIT

you are going to need to cite that. the only accusations of 'sexual harassment' i have seen are asking women at conferences on dates.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by jkaplowitz on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:17AM (#26541131)
That counts as harassment in my opinion if it happens without at least some reasonable reason to believe the women may be interested in dating him, if he persists with a given woman after she doesn't respond with interest, if there is any sort of power dynamic or other coercive context in place that might make the woman feel not free to decline without social or professional penalty (within a community like the free software world this obstacle would often be present in relation to someone like RMS who is prominent within that community), if he makes a habit of propositioning people in professional contexts, or if he asks women out in unprofessional ways like inappropriate touching. If none of these patterns occur, it's probably not harassment, but I suspect he does some of them.

And if it is harassment, I'd probably say it's sexual harassment since it relates to unwanted seeking of romantic or sexual relationships in a professional environment.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by h_anna_h on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:43AM (#26540666)
He used to live in his office.
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by pseudalopex on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:32AM (#26541353)
He moved out around 1998.[1]

[1] https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by hutzlibu on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:43AM (#26540006)
Well, but in combination with the sign on his office" Knight for Justice (and hot ladies)" and other remarks he did - you maybe see, why some people might get another idea?

And why women feel uncomfortable around such a men? And why it therefore might be a bad idea to have such a person in a leadership position?

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by flippinburgers on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:28AM (#26540474)
Which apparently was written by someone else who then snapped the photo.
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by hutzlibu on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:42AM (#26540650)
You know that as a fact, or are you providing alternative facts based on what?

I have not seen the sign in person, but been told by people that it was indeed there.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by h_anna_h on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:44AM (#26540684)
[dead]
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by ratww on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:37AM (#26541424)
> Because I do not see that in there.

It's in the last paragraph.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by hutzlibu on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:52AM (#26541654)
Ok. My bad then. If this is true, it changes maybe some things.

And I lack the sources, but I recall people saying that the sign was there for quite a while, even if he did not wrote that by himself. And I actually would like a quote from him, to confirm that he did not write it. All that is in that source is someone saying it was not put up by him.

If it was really put up by someone else, it would be the question if it was a joke. Making fun of RMS well known attitude - and he left it as in agreeing, at least for a while - or if it was ammo for a smear campaign. Then it would make sense to investigate that and put it right.

But I actually suspect the former.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by h_anna_h on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:31AM (#26542235)
Why not email and ask him? Just make sure that you are polite. He replies to pretty much everyone.
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by neycoda on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:47AM (#26540050)
Is it bad for a man to hit on a woman?
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by Frost1x on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:29AM (#26541313)
In 2021, yes, it is, or at least that's the set of norms we've created. To be more precise, it's bad for anyone to hit on anyone else unless one omnisciently knows the other party is interested in you and wants to be hit on.

As a result, the new forms of dating are that in order to move forward your risk for "making a move" (be it small or large) is not only rejection but also, apparently, potentially career ending for many (especially public figures).

I'm glad I'm happily settled and far removed from the dating scene. Perhaps my principles are too crass for many but I feel in today's romantic relationships, you almost need to have an attorney with you on a date and notary that can sign off that both parties are going to consent to physical contact before making physical contact or much beyond verbally flirting in the most uninteresting ways leaving both parties wondering if the other is at all interested in them romantically.

I'm not condoning rape or flat out sexual assault, there is certainly a line that should never be crossed, but I think we've been moving that line too far for reasonably acceptable human behavior. Heaven forbid you take the chance of misreading the situation and attempt to kiss someone before also having that notarized by your attorney present.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by doomslice on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:00AM (#26541776)
> In 2021, yes, it is, or at least that's the set of norms we've created. To be more precise, it's bad for anyone to hit on anyone else unless one omnisciently knows the other party is interested in you and wants to be hit on.

I can't believe anyone seriously thinks this.

It's bad if you're in a position of power and you hit on someone under your influence - doesn't matter if they would reciprocate or not.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by hutzlibu on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:10AM (#26541938)
"but I think we've been moving that line too far for reasonably acceptable human behavior"

We maybe did. But we are also far from the dystopian scenario you described. I can tell you, in the real world dating still just works fine.

But yes, some behaviours like slapping on some ass, are more frowned upon and called out. Rightfully so.

The times where a woman had to marry her rapist, (this is actually from the bible) are gladly mostly over. But those times were the reason, now it got pushed back too much.

Because there is some unresolved anger left. And being aware of it - can help understand some rections better.

Like the original blog post that started all this. Which many here waved away as a sneaky smear campaign to create attention. Well no, it was a very emotional, honest expressed post. Maybe not really fair in all points, because - emotions. But authentic.

When you are a leader in an idealistic movement and you are incapable of sensing other peoples feelings - before you wave accusations of rape just away - then you are just wrong in that position.

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by screye on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:30AM (#26542220)
The norms around dating in liberal America have completely diverged from the ground reality.

Statistically, you are 3x as likely to meet your future spouse in the workplace than a bar/club.[1]

Let's take a look at the stereotypical man in STEM:

* Looks: Below 80 %ile --> Failure at Tinder[2]

* Socially: Below average --> No romantically successful friends groups to set them up

* Early life: Never cool in school / male dominant peer group --> Still single by the time they graduate

This massively raises the stakes of a workplace romantic encounter, because every other avenue has already been shut in their face.

At this point, "it's only harassment if you are undesirable" is a well known anecdote. So, uncharismatic + unattractive men are basically doomed. The alternative is to fully acknowledge the brutally objectifying nature of it all, objectify yourself and go for obnoxious outward displays of desirability. Ie. "look expensive" and target demographics that value your ability to be gainfully employed and accumulate moderate wealth.

The harder alternative is to hit the gym, learn social skills and actually learn how to be charismatic. This is way harder, especially when society actively ostracizes you. Like trying to make a fish climb a tree.

[1] https://www.pnas.org/content/110/25/10135

[2] https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g...

Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by SamoyedFurFluff on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:32AM (#26541351)
It so if the woman isn’t in a position to refuse without risking social consequences. Turning down my boss, mentor, or giant in my field is dangerous for me, because they can ruin me if they wanted to.
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by drewcoo on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:45AM (#26541535)
Only if the woman feel something she'd prefer not to and ascribes it to that action. Or claims to feel something. Ok, yes, it's bad.
Re:Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF by hutzlibu on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:55AM (#26540128)
No. But to hit on any hot women out of principle(like his sign said on his office door) ... is not quite mature behaviour. Also called sexism/macho.

And can you maybe see, how this makes women uncomfortable? And wanting to avoid such a person? And all together .. avoiding the whole group he has a leadership position?