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Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by rebelos on Thursday March 18, 2021 @05:46AM (#26500999)
Being sexually active is particularly dangerous for heterosexual women.

It's nearly impossible to prove a rape case in court. Because of this, there has been some groundswell of support for relaxing the burden of proof in rape cases to a standard that might ultimately permit some false accusations to result in wrongful convictions (a horrifically bad idea that would likely be a Pandora's box imo).

If you reduce this down to the fundamental tension: either we have to ask women to become dramatically more vigilant and accept some nonzero risk of rape (more or less what we implicitly do already) OR we have to increase the likelihood of wrongful convictions.

As far as I've been able to discern, there is no good solution here. And that's how asinine ideas like this "sex consent app" show up. It's a kind of manifestation of denial.

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by rich_sasha on Thursday March 18, 2021 @06:37AM (#26501302)
Came here to say more-or-less this.

We now define consent as something so etheral (probably rightly so) that it's virtually impossible to prove it was granted (clearly, "leave me alone" remains unambiguous). People can change their mind but feel coerced to continue, or grant consent to something different than what ends up happening. Court cases thus go down the "he said, she said" route.

I don't really know how to get out of that.

The flipside is that, indeed, because genuine accusations are so thin on physical proof, it is so hard to separate them from fake ones. Whenever I hear someone publicly shamed for sexual misconduct and the wrath of public opinion descends on them, a part of me shudders at the thought of that happening to an innocent person, with no defense available.

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by eru on Thursday March 18, 2021 @05:54AM (#26501048)
> If you reduce this down to the fundamental tension: either we have to ask women to become dramatically more vigilant and accept some nonzero risk of rape (more or less what we implicitly do already) OR we have to increase the likelihood of wrongful convictions.

There's a third way, but perhaps equally unappetizing: record all interactions.

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by rebelos on Thursday March 18, 2021 @06:00AM (#26501075)
I'm going to assume you mean a video recording, which is the only way to be absolutely certain about what occurred when you have exactly two witnesses who also happen to be the accuser and the accused.

I omitted this possibility for obvious reasons.

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by eru on Thursday March 18, 2021 @06:06AM (#26501116)
Well, you'd record as much as you can.

Video is obvious, but assuming you use a modern phone, you might as well add other sensors like accelerometer data, and extra channels like all WhatsApp conversations.

> I'm going to assume you mean a video recording, which is the only way to be absolutely certain about what occurred when you have exactly two witnesses who also happen to be the accuser and the accused.

Alas, even videos can be ambiguous. Eg picture some BDSM play. There can be lots of context required to make a decision.

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by oilbagz on Thursday March 18, 2021 @06:43AM (#26501334)
> no good solution here

The solution is the de-stimulation of society from an era of overt sexual manipulation and an adjustment of expectations regarding the value of casual sexual activities.

[dead]
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by dang on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:44PM (#26504591)
Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. This is beyond the pale.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by mam2 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @07:02AM (#26501428)
you are insane
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by dang on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:45PM (#26504603)
Posting like this will get you banned to HN regardless of how bad someone else's comment is. Please follow the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by im3w1l on Thursday March 18, 2021 @07:59AM (#26501746)
An insult is not an argument. Go back to twitter.
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by dang on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:46PM (#26504626)
Posting like this will get you banned to HN regardless of how bad someone else's comment is. Please follow the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by rich_sasha on Thursday March 18, 2021 @06:38AM (#26501309)
That sounds terrible. If you want to punish someone, just say they raped you, and put up with a month's worth of prison. And also, genuine rape victims will be sent to prison, to top up their already ghastly experience.
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by dang on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:45PM (#26504597)
"Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by im3w1l on Thursday March 18, 2021 @01:41PM (#26505337)
Out of all your replies this one hurts the most. I did not post it troll or cause flamewars, but because I thought it was a novel and while not self-evidently beneficial, could at least plausibly work. I wanted to have a serious discussion of pros and cons. And I think that I, sasha and kjeetgill had a productive and curious conversation.
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by dang on Friday March 19, 2021 @01:13AM (#26510338)
It's not accurate to imagine that HN (or any sufficiently large internet forum) could have a "serious discussion of pros and cons" of imprisoning rape victims. For every user who might entertain that as a disembodied thought experiment there are countless more who will react with physical aversion, entirely understandably. As for "productive and curious", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26501428 (or much worse) is the statistical outcome of a provocation like that.
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by im3w1l on Thursday March 18, 2021 @07:56AM (#26501722)
> If you want to punish someone, just say they raped you, and put up with a month's worth of prison.

I'm not sure that is necessarily a problem. If someone is willing to suffer in prison to get revenge, then there must be some kind of serious grievance behind it. They say "an armed society is a polite society", and this kind of double edged sword might just lead to a more polite society. It becomes a formalized way of taking vigilante justice basically.

Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by kjeetgill on Thursday March 18, 2021 @08:08AM (#26501799)
This is just a very short rabbit hole to paying someone else to spend a month in jail for you.
Re:Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash by im3w1l on Thursday March 18, 2021 @08:14AM (#26501850)
That's a fair point. I suppose that just like paying a thug to beat your enemy up, you would have to make the transaction illegal and hope you can make it sufficiently uncommon that it's not a problem.