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Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by sixQuarks on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @10:37AM (#26491839)
Self taught coder at 44. My memory isn’t the greatest, probably one of the hardest things I’ve done, required so much persistence to get through all the frustrations, only reason I made it was due to huge motivation.

There’s no way in hell everyone can learn how to code. Even if most people had the intellectual capability to code (which they don’t), most don’t have the patience and persistence required to follow through to the end.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by devoutsalsa on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @10:56AM (#26492097)
I don't like to say that not everyone can code. I like to say that not everyone will enjoy coding. Personally, I find it more liberating to confront my personal challenges in learning something in terms of how much fun I'm having and/or how much work it'll take to get good at it.

For many years I told tried coding and told myself that I couldn't do it when it got to hard. But the honest answer is that I simply didn't want to put in the work.

Later in life that changed, and I started seriously working at learning to code around age 35 because I was having fun. I decided to go for it professionally at age 38, and got my first coding gig at age 40.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by sixQuarks on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:24AM (#26492509)
I don't know why we have to sugarcoat it. Not only can anyone not be able to code, I'd go as far as saying that MOST people will never be able to code a production application no matter how much teaching/resources you throw their way.

My mother, at her peak, would have never learned how to code even if you held a gun to her head.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by bmitc on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:30AM (#26492594)
Would have is different than could have.

There’s lots of things in life I don’t care to learn, but it doesn’t mean I couldn’t. To be perfectly frank, programming is one of the easier things in life I’ve learned, and it’s usually only difficult for the wrong reasons like poor documentation, bugs in other people’s code, people, etc.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by loblollyboy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:40AM (#26492720)
This. First of all, I don’t think there is a “critical” period for learning programming like there is for languages, or motor skills (try learning to skateboard as an adult). My school curriculum, a foreign language and, yes, skateboarding have all been a lot more challenging than programming. I’d say that learning network administration is probably a lot harder too b/c stuff like that isn’t as logical as a programming language.
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by sixQuarks on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:48AM (#26492830)
I actually meant could have.
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by adityarao310 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @01:31PM (#26494345)
Learning to code != learning to run a prod app with real clients.

I can learn to surf without being a professional surfer. So why can't I learn to code without wanting to make a career out of it?

PS I am the original blog author

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by crispyambulance on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:54AM (#26492900)
> ...never be able to code a production application...

It's true, the vast majority of people will never code a "production application".

BUT, many folks code everyday in the form of excel macros, R, Mathematica, Matlab or Julia notebooks. Many people create programs and scripts in all kinds of tools to get stuff done. IT'S ALL STILL PROGRAMMING, it's just not what folks here would consider a traditional "production application". The people who do this are domain practitioners who use computing to do things, but don't have a need to spend a million dollars to hire a team of "real programmers" and their entourage of PMP's, sales, support, and customer success agents to do it for them.

As far as folks "not being able to code" that's all a matter of inclination and background. There's nothing special about software development. Lot's of people can do successfully at various levels. Some are more DIY than others, but I think you would be surprised at what some people's grandma's can do with the right motivation and background.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by klibertp on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @01:22PM (#26494223)
> There's nothing special about software development.

There's also "nothing special" about writing. Somehow, though, we don't see millions of Hemingways pop up each year.

Writing code is a form of art. There is a science behind it, but the same is true for many other art forms. It's true that everybody can be an artist. Not everybody can be a good artist, though. It's equally true for writers, painters, and coders.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by crispyambulance on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:19PM (#26497483)
We don't need "millions of Hemingway's".

The parent comment was suggesting that very few people can code-- and by "code" they meant "production applications".

I am trying to say that lot's of people can code, well enough to solve their domain problems, well enough to put food on their tables, well enough to not need "real programmers" in increasing numbers of scenarios. Just because they're not doing internet scale application development or cutting edge mission critical projects doesn't mean they "can't code".

There's a long and continuous spectrum between Hemingway-like programmers to bored-out-of-their-skulls enterprise developers to lunch-time dilettantes who are running a far more of their business than they should on brittle excel pivot tables and VBA macros.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by snicker7 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @02:31PM (#26495079)
And "writing" is still a good skill to have, even if you are not a professional essayist or author.
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by klibertp on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @02:55PM (#26495371)
Yes. But writing a letter to friend (or automating your accounting in Excel) differs from writing "War and Peace" (or writing an OS kernel). I think everybody is capable of learning to do the former, but have a really hard time beliving the same for the latter.
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by wombatmobile on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:33AM (#26492631)
If your mother ever told you how to do something which required you to make decisions along the way, she’s a coder.
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by Dudeman112 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:48PM (#26493680)
According to that reasoning, babies are coders too.
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by wombatmobile on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @07:12PM (#26497958)
Babies' demands certainly do compel parents to figure out what to do so they can get enough peace to grab time back for themselves.

What changes once babies grow into toddlers is that they develop the capacity to learn new behaviours, not just through the trial and error of stimulus/response, but through instructions given by language. That's where mothers and fathers excel. The quality of their instructions can be measured by the agility and resilience of the behaviour these instructions impart.

Done well, parenting is not just coding - it's software engineering.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by Dudeman112 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @10:49AM (#26503266)
Then we are all coders. Even dogs are coders.

Guess they were wrong when they said people from dying industries should learn some programming: we were coders all along!

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by Jtsummers on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:27AM (#26492554)
I think that the idea that everyone can learn to code is an exaggeration, in the same way not everyone can learn arithmetic and algebra (that is, some people are literally incapable of learning it, others end up with such severe anxiety they become incapable of it though it's not a technical incapability). However, I do believe that anyone capable of learning arithmetic and algebra can learn programming, though perhaps only to a certain level. And that doesn't necessarily lead to a a career in programming.

Take VBA + Excel, for example. I've seen many non-programmers (by education or trade) pick it up to solve real problems within their offices. It's certainly not my tool of choice, but the level they pick it up to is basically the arithmetic/low-algebra level. They aren't making software for a living, but they are making software to support their living (that is, they're engineers or accountants or administrators who make something that solves a problem, but not software engineers/programmers in general). Their understanding is at the arithmetic/low-algebra level in that they can do it, but don't necessarily understand (fully) what they're doing (they know what variables are, and use them correctly, but maybe don't understand or even know about scoping rules).

The next level involves actually learning scoping rules and how to apply them. How to create new classes/modules and not just by rote imitation. How to "factor" your program into collections of procedures on data structures. This is the algebra level, this is the point where people can start actually becoming professional programmers (more reliably, you can become a professional at the previous level but you'll be constrained in what you can make by what you can understand).

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by dsco on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @10:43AM (#26491937)
I learned to code around the age of 7, and I too agree that there's no way in hell we can get everyone interested in learning how to code. It's something I basically can't explain why I enjoy doing. How would you even get someone who doesn't understand programming to get interested in a career of software engineering?
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by b0afc375b5 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:18AM (#26492415)
> How would you even get someone who doesn't understand programming to get interested in a career of software engineering?

Well, money will make people interested, for better or for worse (for worse, I think).

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by josephorjoe on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:13AM (#26492332)
I learned at 43. Got my first developer job at 44. This description rings true for me.

Persistence in the face of frustrations along with an actual enjoyment of creating things with code is what got me through.

Programming seems like it would be a dreadful job for someone who didn't get some satisfaction out of typing code and then watching as your code does stuff. Definitely not for everyone.

In my case, I didn't start out wanting to learn programming. I wanted to create a web site for a business idea I had. To do that, I started learning javascript and python. Pretty soon I realized that I was much more interested in learning more about programming and web development than I was about my business idea and that I'd rather get paid by someone else with a business idea to write some code.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by twalla on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:16AM (#26492389)
> Persistence in the face of frustrations along with an actual enjoyment of creating things with code is what got me through.

I want to say that this is essentially what "the knack" is for a lot of engineering/programming types. It's the willingness to beat your head against a wall dealing with something unfamiliar until it works and you understand it a little more. Some people can't stand it - for others the dopamine hit of finally figuring it out makes all the frustration worthwhile.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by sixQuarks on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:26AM (#26492534)
That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code and a bunch of frustrating puzzle pieces finally fit together.
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by Leparamour on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:16PM (#26493219)
>That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code

I think you meant 'endorphins'...

Great that you're getting that positive feeling but many people just don't. Just like with the infamous 'runner's high', which I never get. I feel shitty before, during and after running and exercise.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by mym1990 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:23AM (#26492503)
I think coding proficiency is obviously on a pretty large spectrum, so I think there is probably something of a bell curve on where people can reasonably get to. Certainly most everyone could get to a point of working with the basics of a given language, but past that coding really becomes problem solving, whether it is a bug or a business requirement...and that's when a person's willingness to stick with a problem till the end comes into play.

Also, congrats on your journey and sticking with it :)

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by yitchelle on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:54AM (#26492902)
>> There’s no way in hell everyone can learn how to code.

I have to really disagree with this statement. I agree that not everyone can write the next Google search engine, or even the next personal website. But you don't have to do to learn how to code.

My coding skills are pretty crappy after stepping away from it some years back, but I would still consider myself to be able to code something up. Even a small VBA script to help with Excel automation should be considered coding.

Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by sixQuarks on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:55PM (#26493798)
What you’re referring to isn’t what I consider coding. That’s more like scripting. Maybe most people could learn things like html, but creating a production application is a whole different ballgame
Re:I self-learned to code at 30 by electrondood on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @11:58AM (#26492961)
I think of it this way: Most people can go to the gym and subject themselves to the physical discomfort of running, lifting weights, etc.

Few people will dedicate themselves to this discomfort on a daily basis.

Writing code makes the brain hurt. It's perpetually frustrating. We're in a bubble here, but outside of this bubble, people generally do everything they can to avoid mental effort.