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Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @05:48AM (#26488731)
Mr Krebs, Please do your due diligence. The attack vector only works for Landlines, VOIP, Toll-free.

Upstream agreements already block Mobile carriers.

Further, SMS from Short Codes are blocked by default. You can only receive SMS from long-numbers. Eg Wicker ..

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by dataflow on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:24AM (#26489003)
> The attack vector only works for Landlines, VOIP, Toll-free.

I'm confused, didn't the article say "A few minutes after they entered my T-Mobile number into Sakari, Lucky225 started receiving text messages that were meant for me"? T-Mobile is a normal cellular carrier here isn't it? What part of it required a VOIP line?

P.S. You can edit your old comments instead of leaving 4 different ones in the same thread.

EDIT: Looking at this 5-day-old user's history, I think it's safe to say we shouldn't take the comments at face value:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26455000

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26472770

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26464287

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by homero on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:28AM (#26489031)
He's saying Lucky225 lied to market his service https://okeymonitor.com/ in the article.
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by dataflow on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:31AM (#26489052)
Lucky225 lied about... what exactly? The Vice reporter literally says "Then he showed he had received texts that were meant for me that he had intercepted. Later he took over my WhatsApp account, too, and texted a friend pretending to be me."
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by homero on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:34AM (#26489074)
Lied that it was T-Mobile

I'm hoping he lied and T-Mobile SMS can't just be redirected.

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by dataflow on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:35AM (#26489082)
Uhm, it's the Vice reporter who's saying "my T-Mobile number"... are you saying he has no idea who his carrier is and Lucky225 told him his carrier was T-Mobile?!?!?!
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by homero on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:36AM (#26489090)
Well then he didn't lie I guess if it was the journalist getting hijacked live in T-Mobile
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by dataflow on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:37AM (#26489101)
Well that's what the article says. It seems like you have no idea what the allegation is about, and the allegation itself seems to fly pretty blatantly in the face of the article too.
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by homero on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:38AM (#26489106)
The allegation is mobile carriers can't be redirected. Only landline and voip.

Update: So his allegation is there is no reporter supposedly and it's a paid article.

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by dataflow on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:40AM (#26489117)
Which directly contradicts the article saying it was T-Mobile...
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by homero on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:43AM (#26489134)
Well that's what he's claiming https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26488898 paid article

I want to know who is right wealthyyy or Lucky225

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by dataflow on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:46AM (#26489154)
Well that's why I'm pushing back against it. I very much want to know too. So far, given wealthyyy is a 5-day-old account making so many serious accusations of dishonesty [1] [2] against a Vice reporter without a shred of evidence, it should be obvious who has more credibility right now.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26474437

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26474424

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @08:23AM (#26490064)
I don't give ....

Well what. It's obvious who you are. You are Lucky...

Account age is biased way to trust an individual. I could have bought an old HN account from someone but I didn't.

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @07:16AM (#26489445)
Look, Any Vice reporter can be bribed. You're missing the point.
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by dataflow on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @07:18AM (#26489463)
You accuse people of dishonesty so easily and don't feel any need to show a single shred of evidence supporting your position?
Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @08:05AM (#26489895)
Mr Flow, Please try a TMobile number on ZipWhip. You will see it fails. You will now claim that I am lying and that NetNumber has fixed this. So there is nothing I can do to help you.

I have known about this attack since 2012, but I did not publicly talk about how insecure SMS is for promoting an anti-fraud product.

Note, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are other attack vectors that only I know!

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @07:13AM (#26489420)
You are personally attacking me for no reason. What does my other comments has to do with this comment?

I don't care whether you believe me or not. This is a fake news at it's best.

Regarding my comments,

[1] That lady is self marketing guru. It's confirmed everywhere even Reddit.

[2] Modern C++ is simpler than TypeScript, Go, Rust. Modern C++ become more like Python.

https://preshing.com/20141202/cpp-has-become-more-pythonic/

https://web.archive.org/web/20131015192353/http://cpp-next.c...

[3] The comment about Christ is a Joke. Can't I make Jokes on HN?

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by fatnoah on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:32PM (#26493460)
>Upstream agreements already block Mobile carriers. Further, SMS from Short Codes are blocked by default. You can only receive SMS from long-numbers. Eg Wicker .

I've built a very similar product to ZipWhip. These restrictions are likely enforced by ZipWhip, there is nothing structural at the NetNumber or other level that technically prevents you from taking over SMS message routing or receiving messages from short codes on mobile numbers. Submit the SPID change to NetNumber and you're off and running!

The secujrity

It is worth noting that the mobile carriers will periodically "reset" these changes to fix the routing (T-Mobile is one of the more aggressive ones here) and that continued violations by MVNOs like Sakari would eventually result in a loss of access for them.

In Sakari's case, they were doing no due diligence or much to prevent the fraud. My own company's workflow for landlines placed a telephone call to the customer's number to give them a code to use in the registration process (remember, the attack noted in the article doesn't port the number, it just reroutes SMS). For toll-free numbers, we required legal documentation to prove that you owned the number. We also didn't allow any mobile numbers to be registered at any time.

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by jeroenhd on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @05:59AM (#26488829)
It works for at least one mobile carrier, as demonstrated in the article Krebs references [1]. One carrier is enough.

The ability to hijack text messages through an online service was also shown in an article Krebs' source mentioned [2].

Perhaps you're right that upstream agreements with mobile carriers should already be blocked, but in practice it's been proven not to be.

There was a change to NetNumber's systems on 11 March to combat this, but there's no guarantee that their competitors don't have similar flaws or that the measures taken were good enough to stop the attack in practice.

Even still, if the problem might be fixed in the entire US, that doesn't mean anything for the rest of the world.

[1]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3g8wb/hacker-got-my-texts-1...

[2]: https://lucky225.medium.com/its-time-to-stop-using-sms-for-a...

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:12AM (#26488898)
All your references are pointing to Lucky225 who is trying to market his anti-fraud product.

NetNumber has no competitors. It's a routing database.

The Vice article is a paid piece. This attack doesn't work with any of US Mobile carriers.

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @06:15AM (#26488936)
Please see my comments at this thread, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26468892

A lot of people confirmed this as FUD.

Re:Can We Stop Pretending SMS Is Secure Now? by wealthyyy on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @05:55AM (#26488792)
The attack also works with Canadian carriers.