Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests have collapsed

Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by jdmichal on Monday March 15, 2021 @09:36AM (#26465913)

Except this is falling exactly into the trap that ClumsyPilot points out:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26464707

The USA can afford to emit less than it did 10 years ago precisely because it has emitted so much in the past and its economy is basically built. Any bemoaning about China or other currently-developing countries that doesn't also talk about how we should also be helping them bootstrap themselves with more advanced systems is just privilege at having gotten there first and pulling the ladder up behind us.

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by dahfizz on Monday March 15, 2021 @09:51AM (#26466077)

Isn't renewable energy generally cheaper than coal at this point?[1]. You're right, that we have done the work to research, develop, and manufacture renewable energy sources. Now all the rest of the world just has to buy the thing that is cheaper.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by jdmichal on Monday March 15, 2021 @12:49PM (#26468351)

Yes, renewable is cheap, but also unreliable. And storage to manage that unreliability is, per your link, more expensive than the corresponding fossil fuel plants. It's either that or drastically over-provision the renewables, which then has to be factored into the cost.

Right now, the cheapest approach from scratch could maybe consist of:

1. Over-provisioned renewables,

2. connected to a large-area grid to mitigate local-scale negative impacts to renewable productivity,

3. with enough fossil fuel capacity to basically serve as "storage" and bridge large-scale negative impacts to renewable productivity.

But, of course, China is not building from scratch -- they've been at this for decades. And the inversion of prices between renewables and fossil fuels is a fairly recent one.

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